Bookshelf Speakers

[llamabones]

i'm looking for a good set. make some recos, right now the budget is flexible. nothing too steep, but i want some that i'm going to be happy with for a long time.

[Patrick]

On the used market, Snell K-IIs or K-IIIs are stone cold classics and are extremely easy to drive (i.e. you don't need a very powerful amplifier) which is a huge bonus. Don't expect beautiful looks, just smooth, awesome sound perfect for rock.

Current production speakers: look at Epos EL-3s (which some other people here have bought) for $300 a pair, or the $150-250 bookshelves from PSB, Paradigm and Polk.

Acoustic Energy have some good ones too but they're UK-based and with the strong pound the prices may have gone up. You'd be looking at the Aego range I think.

Hope this helps -

Patrick

[Patrick]

also, I don't know these, but they might be excellent and look like they might go for cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14993&item=5745638948&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Despite what the guy says they are NOT "floor standing" speakers (!)

Beware - not all Snells are good. Peter Snell died a few years ago and you don't want the new home-theater models the company's been producing since then.

Patrick

[earl grey]

i have a pair of paradigm mini-monitor bookshelfs that i have been very happy with. they have an extra bass port in the back - gives a much richer bass sound but you need about a foot of space behind them or they'll sound boomy.

i think they cost $250-300.

[Patrick]

Hi Earl,

If you want to get 'tweaky' you could also try stuffing the bass port with rolled-up rags to see how that sounds - then try moving the speakers back and forth.

Another technique is to put straws in them - varying amounts (though the same in each speaker naturally) to reduce boominess/tighten up the bass.

It all depends on your room, the big variable that no speaker designer can plan for...

Patrick

[S M @]

I guarantee you will not be disappointed with Paradigm Reference Studio 20s. If you can part with the money they are unbelievable for the price. I got a pair 4 years ago for $600 CDN, so if the exchange rates at that time are an indicator, you might be able to find a pair for $4-500 US maybe. Go to a shop and see what you think (for any you're thinking of getting that's a good idea).

[earl grey]

interesting - i might try that out to see how it sounds. though they actually sound great in my current setup - with just a little space, they're not boomy at all.

it's funny though, they literally blew my mind when i first got em (along with the rest of my low end hi-fi (marantz) system ... i.e. i was listening to everything i owned again b/c i was hearing *so* many new things. (it was an upgrade from a sony boombox.) but that was over 5 yrs ago and i'm used to them now ... i feel like i might need to go through that process again soon, just a step up on the ladder.

[Patrick]

For that "low-end hi-fi" stuff Marantz is good shit. So is Rotel. So is NAD. Each of these brands has particular strengths though - Rotel CD players, NAD integrated amplifiers, so it's good to do some research. Once you get slightly more expensive than these there are a host of smaller mom-and-pop firms doing unbelievable stuff, not to mention tube equipment which is great sounding and incredibly cool in every sense.

Patrick

[earl grey]

Originally posted by Patrick
For that "low-end hi-fi" stuff Marantz is good shit. So is Rotel. So is NAD. Each of these brands has particular strengths though - Rotel CD players, NAD integrated amplifiers, so it's good to do some research. Once you get slightly more expensive than these there are a host of smaller mom-and-pop firms doing unbelievable stuff, not to mention tube equipment which is great sounding and incredibly cool in every sense.

Patrick

yeah actually i almost got a rotel system instead, but it was a little out of my price range with decent speakers. i did a ton of research at the time, and so much listening at different shops ... i got really obsessive with it. and i came real close to getting PSB speakers before going paradigm. tannoy's had a nice sound too, but a little too open for some of the stuff i listen to. they just floored me on 'in a silent way' though (one of my screening CD's).

if i had to start somewhere, would my CD player be the best piece to upgrade? i've got:

marantz cc-38 cd changer
marantz sr-48mkII amp/receiver
paradigm mini-monitor speakers

[Patrick]

How recent is your CD player? Ordinarily I'd say yes, start at the source, but improvements in digital technology have progressed to the point where you might see greater rewards on the amp or speaker side.

In general though you will see a big improvement by going from a changer to a single-disc player.

Patrick

[earl grey]

Originally posted by Patrick
How recent is your CD player? Ordinarily I'd say yes, start at the source, but improvements in digital technology have progressed to the point where you might see greater rewards on the amp or speaker side.

In general though you will see a big improvement by going from a changer to a single-disc player.

Patrick

i got everything in the summer of '99. i thought about the single/changer issue when i got my current system, but i really like having 5 options at once. laziness, i guess.

[Patrick]

To earl, and Max, and llamabones...

You might also consider upgrading your headphone setup. For the amount of money you guys are considering spending on a decent amp and speakers, or a CD player upgrade, you could get a first-rate headphone amp and phones.

Taking the room out of the audio cost/benefit equation brings the costs more into line. Since cans play directly into the ear, room acoustics disappear - which means that headphpones can be more purely linear without all the compromises that loudspeakers have to make. And since they don't need to be nearly as loud, the money for the amps can go into quality rather than power.

Sure, you give up body-shaking bass and the ability to listen with other people. But you also gain first-class sound for not much money.

I recommend checking out this link:

www.head-fi.org

Patrick

[the Pawnbroker]

Originally posted by Patrick
On the used market, Snell K-IIs or K-IIIs are stone cold classics and are extremely easy to drive (i.e. you don't need a very powerful amplifier) which is a huge bonus. Don't expect beautiful looks, just smooth, awesome sound perfect for rock.

Patrick

What do you think of the late 80s early 90s Snell Tower Speakers? I may have the oportunity to lay my hands on a pair.

I also posted this question in the CD Changer thread, before seeing Snell pop up here.

[Patrick]

Originally posted by the Pawnbroker
What do you think of the late 80s early 90s Snell Tower Speakers? I may have the oportunity to lay my hands on a pair.

Like the E series you mean? My brother had a pair that he absolutely loved. (He had to sell when he moved to a larger apartment. Don't ask - it's a "family" thing.) We had a pair in the conference room that didn't work as well, but that might have been the Sunfire amplification which eventually blew, as well as the room.

Snell until Mr. Snell died in general was a great, great company. And all the speakers require relatively little power to drive... which means you get more volume, roomfillingness and intensity for your amplifier buck. Also an "easier" sound from the system as a whole.

[Patrick]

Also, I've never heard them, but many people swear by them - how about planar (flat-panel) speakers, such as the Magneplanar Magnepans?

The Magnepan MMGs list for $550 but can be found for $350 or even less lightly used.

Here's a pair for $265:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1111017105

Here's what they look like (one of the pairs of tall white panels - this is a home cinema review so it shows extra pairs and a center channel)

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/magnepan_mmgw_mmgc.htm

Supposed to be amazing ... but probably to get real bass you need to add a sub.

Patrick

[the Pawnbroker]

Originally posted by Patrick


Here's a pair for $265:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrplan&1111017105

Patrick

Patrick, what's your view on used audio websites like audiogon? Are they more or less reliable than ebay? Had any direct experience?

[Patrick]

I buy and sell on Audiogon all the time. Never had a bad experience. Much more reliable than eBay, though often more expensive... and generally not so good for vintage stuff. Check feedback, just as you would on eBay, keeping in mind that A'gon's point system awards 3 for each positive feedback.

Patrick

[george]

bookshelf speaker!
going doooown to the water!
gonna do
what needs
to be doooooone!!!
ooooh yeah!!!

[Strypes]

"Back in the day"... christ, was it THAT long ago?... I found myself quite content with an old cassette tape player and a pair of off-brand Chinese earbuds.

As time went by I afforded myself a CD player (and a few months later, CDs). From then on the cassette just wouldn't do it any more. Then came my first pair of expensive headphones, which meant that earbuds would never cut it again. And so on.

I thought I'd get some refuge with MP3s - but no! Some bastard had to go introduce me to the differences between 128 and 256KBit, which now means all my music files take up TWICE the disk space they used to. And now there's Ogg Vorbis... *sigh*

I find myself rapidly unable to properly enjoy music unless it's on hardware with a price tag that would feed a small African village for a year. I can't even do Internet feeds any more, cos I find myself irritated by the underwater sounds. This is why I'm scared stiff of buying a turntable. I can't AFFORD vinyl, and you need HUGE pockets to carry that shit to the park.

Bottom line is, keep in mind when you buy an expensive speaker system you're also destroying your ability to go cheaper again. But is that a bad thing?

Was I going somewhere with this ramble? Oh yeah, it's my first post. Heya, all!

[earl grey]

Originally posted by Strypes

Was I going somewhere with this ramble? Oh yeah, it's my first post. Heya, all!

welcome. but i read your name and i can't help but think of stryper (http://www.stryper.com/). (sorry.)

[Patrick]

Originally posted by Strypes
I can't AFFORD vinyl, and you need HUGE pockets to carry that shit to the park.

Strypes, you can afford vinyl... because secondhand vinyl, notwithstanding all the rare valuable stuff, is unbelievably cheap. Certainly less than buying CDs.

Hmm, why do I suddenly have the feeling I know you??

Patrick

[Strypes]

Hm, why do I think I know you, too? :)

I agree with you on the vinyl thing... especially down here in Australia, where CDs are just ungodly expensive.

But... *embarrassed coff* I don't actually buy many CDs either these days. It's all MP3, largely because I never had time to get to that many music stores (yes, it's sad but true); and cos they're a pain to carry across countries; and any number of other lame excuses...

(Plus, of course, I have access to a large CD selection lately via a certain Norse God of Thunder... BTW, we're STILL getting around to that trip to Vicious Sloth for that Extradition single.)

Actually it turns out that I've been more interested in building a physical collection since delving into the Matador archives again. That Matador at Fifteen contest was awesome in more than one way - the music feed got me hooked on a few bands I'd previously passed over. Now, I just need to make some room on the ol' credit card.... :)

I forsee change in the winds, least of which will never being QUITE content with the sound quality of digital recordings again... ah, but that's life. BTW, can you recommend some kick-ass headphones?

[Thor]

Originally posted by Strypes
BTW, can you recommend some kick-ass headphones?

You'll find answers to this question and many more here (http://www.matadorrecords.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2810)

[Strypes]

Awesome. Just awesome.

I just budgeted out all my spare cash until 2010.

...and a good deal of my un-spare cash.

After that, I'm going to have to port my own equipment to parties cos their systems will never be "listenable" *sigh*

[Tony]

Does anyone know if Marantz speakers are any good? I'm wondering if this (seattle.craigslist.org/see/ele/172373141.html) is a good deal.

Thanks

[Patrick]

The receiver, yes... if it's in good order. The speakers, probably not.

There's an insane vibe on Audio Asylum for these 49.95 speakers from Best Buy right now. I can't guarantee anything. But for that price, who the fuck cares?

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=speakers&m=226343

of course, mods are already available to take it to the "next level":

http://www.gr-research.com/insignia.htm

I HAVE NOT HEARD THIS SPEAKER. Can't tell you a thing about it. However it's likely to blow those old Marantzes out of the water. (Love the receiver though - provided it's in good condition! Might need a cleaning and tuneup from someone who understands old electronics. But when it's tuned up, it will sound like music.)

Patrick

[Tony]

Thanks for the info. I had put my stereo plans on hold, but thought if those speakers were any good, it was too good a deal to pass up. I've seen that receiver go for $350+ on ebay, so I still might check it out.

Those mods for the Insignia speakers are way over my head, but it sounds like they're pretty good as is. Can't be any worse than what I have now anyway.

Thanks again!

[Patrick]

If you get the Insignias, let us know how they work out!

I'm thinking of snapping up a pair to see how they stack up against the $600 B&Ws in my office.

Patrick

[chuck-t]

Just bought a pair online for $34.99. Best Buy has them on sale until 06/24. Cheap as chips!

Chuck