View Full Version : Is Pavement Overrated?
sonicyouthyumyu
01-31-2005, 05:22 PM
I mean Slanted was great but Sebadoh III? C'mon! Sebadoh III was the modern Seargent Pepper's...
Ha ha ha...should be fun.
tinobeat
01-31-2005, 05:25 PM
firestarter...
I think pavement are one of the best bands ever, but they are overrated, simply because so many people treat them like this holy grail where they take personal affront to anything less than adulation.
Never got into Sebadoh, meself.
R.Wilder
01-31-2005, 05:27 PM
Not overrated. If anything, wayyyyy underrated, at least in the greater mass wad of humanity.
Pavement is one of the two or three most important rock bands of the 90s.
Meh. I like the whole of Brighten the Corners and scattered songs from other albums, but I could probably still live a full, productive life if I never heard a Pavement song again.
Sebadoh's masterpiece, btw, was Bakesale.
sonicyouthyumyu
01-31-2005, 05:34 PM
but III - the whole gafney, lowenstein barlow post-dinosaur was amazing - the freed pig, etc... its just so fucking haunting
Brushback
01-31-2005, 05:36 PM
I've gone my entire life without buying a single Pavement record, and look how cool and smart I am.
Originally posted by sonicyouthyumyu
but III - the whole gafney, lowenstein barlow post-dinosaur was amazing - the freed pig, etc... its just so fucking haunting Never really cared for Gaffney's contributions (and, until Barlow's new solo record, didn't think he amounted to all that much either). Bakesale is the Loewenstein Show... as it should be!
winterversion
01-31-2005, 05:51 PM
Just like any semi-important band, Pavement does have its legions of devoted followers, but I wouldn't say that makes them overrated. Their musical influence is just so pervasive and you notice subsequent bands incorporating pavementisms into their own albums (to take a cue from Thurston Moore on the Slow Century DVD). Although also an important band in the 90s, I don't think Sebadoh's influence on the scene quite measures up to Pavement's.
Good point. I like most of the bands who've made careers off of rewriting "Father To A Sister Of Thought."
sonicyouthyumyu
01-31-2005, 06:06 PM
yea - good pt - my only ref. to Sebadoh's influence is ash (polvo/helium) who used to reference their influence as instrumentalists (sounds) etc...as writing the book, etc...which to a certain degree i think is true - i mean, there's no comparison as far as musicianship...
TheSadDebaser
01-31-2005, 06:13 PM
Bakesale is so awesome. One of my favorite albums ever, I think. I thought Barlow had more songs on it than Lowenstein, though. I always felt Lowenstein was often pretty lame, but Barlow has had some really amazing songs. I mean, all I realky need is "License to Confuse." Bakesale is a desert island album for me. So is Slanted & Enchanted.
But after Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain they get into the weird (I mentioned this elsewhere) cynical urbanite slacker attitude and stuff gets duller and duller the further you delve into SM's catalogue. Still some good stuff though. They just weren't as catchy after S&E and CR,CR.
george
01-31-2005, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by Paul
Good point. I like most of the bands who've made careers off of rewriting "Father To A Sister Of Thought."
like okkervil river? i am webstalking you paul.
Salman
01-31-2005, 07:29 PM
Bakesale is 1/3 amazing, 1/3 mediocre and 1/3 garbage. III is where it's at. Jason only has three songs on it, which is how it should be. I never really liked most of his songs, and I thought Eric Gaffney's stuff is very good, especially his stuff on III.
Anyway, yeah, Pavement is overrated.
River Tigris
01-31-2005, 07:57 PM
As much as I love "Bakesale" and "Harmacy," that's not the Sebadoh I sold my soul to back in high school. Give me "Bubble & Scrape" or "III" any day of the week.
And I do like Pavement, but they don't hold a candle to early R.E.M. or the Velvet Underground (both of which they're often compared to, it seems).
cheesetea
01-31-2005, 08:43 PM
As part of the pavement fan base I will obviously lean towards them. Seb is okay they are too general if you know what I mean. There isn't much "the all over the place" sprawling attitude that pavement has. Pavement is just naturally perfect.They were amazing without even trying - S & E - Malkmus returns from Europe finding out to his amusement that that Pavement is a success
fivefourtwo
01-31-2005, 09:52 PM
Pavement is one of those bands All those guys into Joe Satriani
and Steve Vai love to hate.Most people think pavements over rated because there not a band whose music you can tear a part and it will make sense..Pavement is a band in my opnion that can never be overrated
Wallerton
01-31-2005, 11:07 PM
No. Sonic Youth is.
Ha!
Not overrated, just not some people's cup of tea. Including mine, I just don't feel it. And I've tried repeatedly to.
otto midnight
01-31-2005, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Salman
Bakesale is 1/3 amazing, 1/3 mediocre and 1/3 garbage. III is where it's at. Jason only has three songs on it, which is how it should be. I never really liked most of his songs, and I thought Eric Gaffney's stuff is very good, especially his stuff on III.
Anyway, yeah, Pavement is overrated.
on III how old was jason? 20? by no means had he come into his own as a songwriter. to dismiss him based on his first three recorded songs is lunacy.
sebadoh never got as good as they were on the freed man cassette. not to say what came after wasn't any good but it wasn't AS good. to me, natch.
johansen smith
02-01-2005, 12:16 AM
has anyone brought up that Sgt Pepper's sucks?
Originally posted by johansen smith
has anyone brought up that Sgt Pepper's sucks? I try to every chance I get, but I sort of let this opportunity pass me by.
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 12:36 AM
"hey everyone! check out how contrary I am! Sgt. Pepper sucks! I'm so against-the-grain!"
;)
It's not like that. I don't like any pop band's psychedelic album from the 60s... the Beatles, the Stones, the Byrds (okay, maybe the Byrds), etc. For me, the Beatles peaked with Rubber Soul/Revolver and again with "The White Album."
johansen smith
02-01-2005, 01:12 AM
I am admittedly not the biggest Beatles fan, but like Paul, I'm discounting Sgt. Pepper's because it's not very good, not to gain imaginary points. Besides, their early stuff was pretty top-notch pop. (plus five)
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 01:20 AM
did you guys not see my super-helpful-to-indicate-sarcasm winkin-face at the bottom of the post?
I love Sgt. Peppers, but I'm more of a Revolver/Abbey Road guy meself
Originally posted by Paul
It's not like that. I don't like any pop band's psychedelic album from the 60s...
*vomits all over his shoe*
Actually, let me rephrase that.
I'm curious, paul.. are you just not into the psychedelic thing in general or is it just the 60's albums that don't sit well with you? I ask because I think that the avalanches album was one of the most psychedelic albums I'd heard in a while and I know you're a fan...
the Pawnbroker
02-01-2005, 09:26 AM
Originally posted by Paul
It's not like that. I don't like any pop band's psychedelic album from the 60s... the Beatles, the Stones, the Byrds (okay, maybe the Byrds), etc. For me, the Beatles peaked with Rubber Soul/Revolver and again with "The White Album."
What about The Who Sells Out?
Wallerton
02-01-2005, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by johansen smith
has anyone brought up that Sgt Pepper's sucks?
Oh, good lord. I'll admit that it may be over-hyped and that it may have been a bad influence (in the sense that it inspired a wave of bad concept albums). But it does not suck.
(Having said that, I will admit that I needle-hop past "Within You, Without You" pretty much every time I listen to it.)
Salman
02-01-2005, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by otto midnight
on III how old was jason? 20? by no means had he come into his own as a songwriter. to dismiss him based on his first three recorded songs is lunacy.
sebadoh never got as good as they were on the freed man cassette. not to say what came after wasn't any good but it wasn't AS good. to me, natch.
I was saying that Jason only has like two good songs on each Sebadoh album he's on. I think "Black-Haired Gurl" and "Hoppin' Up and Down" from III are some of his best tunes. Anyway, his output should have been limited, but that couldn't of happened since Eric left the band.
Sgt. Peppers is over-hyped but I wouldn't say it's bad. But I agree that the Beatles hit there high point with Revolver.
Originally posted by Thor
I'm curious, paul.. are you just not into the psychedelic thing in general or is it just the 60's albums that don't sit well with you? You misread what I'd written. I don't like the psych albums by bands who were normally pop bands... Sgt Pepper's, Their Satanic Majesties Request, SMiLE, and so on.
Originally posted by Paul
You misread what I'd written. I don't like the psych albums by bands who were normally pop bands
No, I understood. I just think that the "pop bands going psych" phenomena in the 60's produced some of the most wonderful stuff from the era.
I was just curious to know what you thought of other psych.
As long as there's not a lot of harpsichord or sitar, most non-pop "psych" is pretty good. But without those two things, it just sounds like regular rock music to me, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.
That said, I liked it when the Zombies made Odessey & Oracle and the Byrds made Fifth Dimension.
I almost mentioned odsessy and oracle, actually.
Miss Tasty Princess
02-01-2005, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Paul
It's not like that. I don't like any pop band's psychedelic album from the 60s... the Beatles, the Stones, the Byrds (okay, maybe the Byrds), etc. For me, the Beatles peaked with . . . Revolver . . . Hmm, yet Revolver contains The Beatles' most psychedelic songs while SPLHCB is much more "pop" oriented, for the most part.
You think? With the exception of "Tomorrow Never Knows," I think Revolver is a great little pop-baroque record. Sgt. Peppers is all about silly sound collages, bright colors, and general druggyness.
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 12:34 PM
you're just letting the cover art confuse you. I find Revolver way more "psychedelic" than SPLHCB...
I've also been known to confuse Beatles singles from the same time period with actually being on Sgt Peppers too, because it's the album I listen to the least and don't really remember what's on there and what's not. The songs I probably hate the most are actually on The Magical Mystery Tour.
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 12:50 PM
which, appropriately, is one of my favorite Beatles records...
Oh, there are good songs on that record too. I guess I'll just say I don't like "Strawberry Fields" and anything that sounds like it (which, to me, is most of Sgt Peppers).
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 12:56 PM
that's cool... if you hate music
Originally posted by tinobeat
that's cool... if you hate music Wiseacre!
You know what's the best thing about music? There's so much of it, you never run out. Today, for instance, is the first time I've ever listened to David Axelrod and I'm loving it.
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 01:06 PM
which david axelrod?
he's awesome.
Songs of Experience
What would you suggest I check out next?
tinobeat
02-01-2005, 01:28 PM
The only other one I've heard is the recent self-titled one on Mo'Wax of all labels. Its pretty amazing..
maroonwalrus
02-01-2005, 02:12 PM
Alright it appear that I'm entering this conversation a bit late, but here goes:
While much of Pavement's fanbase is damned fanatical (as is the case for many well-established bands/musicians), I really wouldn't call them "overrated." With my (admittedly limited) experience in college radio and considerable time spent around hipster-types, I'd say that Pavement seems to be generally acknowledged as a solid band, but rarely do I hear them exulted so much as to be completely ridiculous. If it's this message board that makes one think that Pavement is overrated, it's prudent to keep in mind that the Matador Records Bulletin Board is not really a comprehensive cross-section of the independent music listeners spectrum, especially with respect to peoples' attitudes towards Pavement.
c. leo
02-01-2005, 03:57 PM
And, scene.
3dsound
02-03-2005, 04:36 PM
ah! I always thought of pavement as being UNDERRATED!!!!!!!!!!
civil jar
02-04-2005, 08:40 AM
this possibly isn't the best place to say that i hate the beatles and 99% of their output, and that sebadoh, while being one of my favourite bands, peaked with weed forestin' and that III was their weakest lp.
ANYWAY...
with regards to pavement being overrated, i would largely agree with that statement. brighten the corners and terror twilight are vastly overrated. the majority of my friends were introduced to pavement by british radio's constant rotation of stereo, shady lane or carrot rope. they find btc and tt as being ultimate pavement (and for some reason, interesting listening). they completely dismiss slanted and enchanted, crooked rain and the early singles as being too raw, and wowee zowee as not being cohesive enough. i find these three records to be terribly underrated. they deserve FAR more attention in my opinion.
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