"closed"?

[einzack]

why is the 'well now' thread closed????

what was wrong with it?

[used2likemogwai]

yeah! I didnt even swear in my post that got deleted!! all i did was call stuart a whiner ;)

[Gerard]

if you have a problem with the way these boards are edited, by all means, check out any of the millions of unmoderated forums out there, or better yet, start your own. We've already heard eloquent words from persons with funny names saying the new (unreleased) Mogwai album ain't so hot --- before Matador has even circulated advances to press or radio, how's that for timely! And we've also heard from our good friend Mr. Braithwaite cordially inviting some of those persons to go fuck themselves.

OK, he didn't actually say that. But perhaps he should've.

We don't mind allowing for differering opinions, but at some point or another there's just too much of the same shit being repeated over and over again.

coming soon : Mogwai promise free backrubs for all "fans" that weren't planning on buying the new album anyway.

[used2likemogwai]

very true gerry, but why not delete the whole thread than? oh thats right because good 'ol stu from 'gwai posted.

[Gerard]

my name ain't Gerry.

2ndly, there were other terrific contributors to that awe-inspiring thread. Me, for instance. And I'd have no trouble editing or deleting Stuart's comments if I felt he deserved it.

[einzack]

hi gerard,

but surely, isn't this a forum for discussing matador bands and their releases....
sure, the new mogwai one hasn't actually been "officially" released yet, but why should that stop people from actually discussing it.

i guess what it comes down to is that this is "your" board and you set the rules.....
can't argue with that.

i agree that when it gets stupid and petty, that should be stopped, but i thought stuarts contribution was really interesting and certainly deserved discussion....

and i can understand stuart being fucked off at it being leaked, but surely his anger should be directed at the wanker who leaked it, and not at the fans who downloaded it....

your comment on no advance copies being released raises another question....how the fuck has it been leaked?
who would be in possession of a copy now??
i would have thought that only you label people and the band and their cohorts would have their hot little hands on a copy, and i would have assumed that none of them would want it leaked....
what are your thoughts about this???

[plasmatron]

Perhaps i should clarify my position on this wee storm in the metaphorical tea cup. I'm not pissed off that people have downloaded our record as this is inevitable. What i was pissed off about is the sneering tone that eminates without fail from US indie kids about records that haven't been released yet. It certainly isn't only my band that get this kind of shit but i won't apologise for taking umbrage to having a record that i'm immensely proud of descibed as "lacklustre" 2 months before it is released. I realise that my tone and anti-American slant wasn't nice but i tend not to be when riled. I also didn't ask for the thread to closed, you can call me a dick as many times as you wish. I only looked here to check the tour dates were there. Boo ya sucks etc etc etc

[Gerard]

"but surely, isn't this a forum for discussing matador bands and their releases....
sure, the new mogwai one hasn't actually been "officially" released yet, but why should that stop people from actually discussing it."

I've not stopped anyone from discussing it. But I have ended a particularly thread that went from discussing an album that only a few people have access to, to the inevitable anguish from persons who expect Mogwai to come round to their house and give them a hand job just because they are past, present or future fans.


"i agree that when it gets stupid and petty, that should be stopped, but i thought stuarts contribution was really interesting and certainly deserved discussion...."

I think so too, but the whole thing of people saying "whoa, now I'm _really_ glad I'm not buying his records" is too predictable. All the guy & his cohorts owe anyone is, well, nothing. For the people who aren't even buying the records....they owe you less than nothing.

"and i can understand stuart being fucked off at it being leaked, but surely his anger should be directed at the wanker who leaked it, and not at the fans who downloaded it...."

I think his comment wasn't directed so much at those who downloaded as much as it was towards those who downloaded and felt they had a right to pass public judgement on an unreleased work they've not paid for.

"your comment on no advance copies being released raises another question....how the fuck has it been leaked?"

pretty easily, I'd imagine. The record companies in question aren't small operations and if you add up all the international distributors and licensees, that's more than a few CDR's sitting on desks. All it takes is one person to upload or burn the damn thing and it spreads like SARS (my apologies to anyone who actually has SARS, I'm not making light of it).

"what are your thoughts about this???"

Mixed feelings, really. I mean, there are plenty of unpopular bands that would cut off their fucking arms to have strangers disecting their unreleased material --- this is never a controversial subject for bands with no fans. On the other hand, I totally relate to Stuart's perspective.....almost 2 months before the public gets to make up their own minds about 'Happy Songs For Happy People' a handful of MBB posters (not exactly the widest cross section of music fans on earth) have the opportunity to dismiss the band's efforts...based on what exactly? A CDR? Some mp3's? Certainly not the fully mastered & packaged album because I can assure you, nobody has that yet, not even Mogwai themselves. And said buzzkillers don't have to pay the band a penny for the priviledge of hearing "the new album" and shitting all over it. And we're not talking about very deep analysis, either.

To some extent, that's what dealing with the listening public in 2003 entails. Maybe Stuart has to put up with it, but he doesn't have to take it sitting down, either.
GC

[plasmatron]

Apendage.

What is the story with the guy who posts as used2like mogwai? What are you doing on this board? I can live with people going off our band but why wwould you hang about wittering about them after stopping liking them? I used to like Pop Will Eat Itself but don't feel tempted to trawl the internet proclaiming the fact. Very odd.

SB

[bitterfruit]

To discredit "US indie kids" in a outright generalization is not kosher.

What if he downloaded the album and loved it?

[plasmatron]

To discredit "US indie kids" in a outright generalization is not kosher.

Fair enough, perhaps its just that i'm exposed to this kind of thing from the States more than anywhere else. Bacon isn't Kosher either and is good in sandwiches.

What if he downloaded the album and loved it?

I don't understand what you mean. What if he did? Its not the reception its the attitude of detached judgement that irks me.

SB

[bitterfruit]

I would imagine that a large portion of your record buying public comes from this electricity disconnecting regime, thus probably also a larger percentage of attitudes emoting lacklustre performance. In other words, it's just the impression that US indie kids are such fuckasses due to the numbers, not that they really are.

Plus, I hate the "indie kid" moniker that gets applied to people that listen to certain strains of music or labels. I am grown adult for fuck's sake.

If he downloaded the album and was singing thanks to Jesus that Mogwai was born, one might be singing a different tune. One might have said, "Those US indie kids really recognize good music when they hear it. Sharp little tikes they are!"

The detached judgement here is just more painful, because he happened to not like it.

[threelobed]

Originally posted by bitterfruit
The detached judgement here is just more painful, because he happened to not like it.

quit comparing apples and oranges and read this situation for what it is - a little bit of damnation for what is a largely valid criticism of the clique-ish world of independent music in the states. yes, SB got involved almost exclusively due to the fact that the reviews were negative, but that's exactly the point he's making. then again, he's really not trying to hide that either. look back at one of the first posts in that other thread that just stated something along the lines of "don't wait for this record - it sucks". well, whether the album is mind-numbingly good or less-than great is something i'll wait to decide for myself, but the presentation of those comments - short, enigmatic, and, YES, downright snotty in their tone and presentation - reeks of the sort of holier-than-thou indie attitude that make this whole game suck from time to time. for fuck's sake, it's music people (and yes, i'm directing this comment at those of you who have no life apart from it). SB's comments were fair as they nailed that common indie-listening desire to be "cooler" than everyone else. to say that he's complaining simply due to a bad review is to stick your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge his point as valid. the stereotypical criticism of the "indie attitude" came to be for a reason - it's commonplace.

[used2likemogwai]

sorry i had to edit this, because i didnt fully read stuarts posts.

the way i see it is if all the reviews were "best 'gwai ever" and "better than CODY", nobody would be saying crap!!! so you higher-ups are only upset because less people will buy the album now or won't be in as much a hurry to get it? no? if not thats what it looks like to me. i apologize for being pissy in my earleir posts but i really did used to like mogwai until rock action, and i guess i'm just disappointed that stu even cares about any of this, i thought he'd be above any of this. guess i'm wrong. peace

[used2likemogwai]

ps- i wont use this nick anymore. i only used it because i was pissed off.

[Futureman]

Frankly, I was surprised to see Mr. Braiwaithe himself hurling gross generalizations and puerile epithets at the “cunts” in this “fucking country” who buys his band’s records.

So someone didn’t like your record. Cry me a river. Quit behaving like an unappreciative little curmudgeon and show some gratitude to the fans who help you earn a living doing what you love.

What a creep.

[braudimusprime]

Wow, I registered just to get in on this discussion. I am clearly bored.

Anyone who downloads an album before its release, then bitches about how bad it is on the internet (not even like anyone solicited his opinion) deserves some terrible, terrible fate. I could get the new Mogwai album easily off Soulseek, but I guess I'm the rare American student who actually enjoys tearing open the plastic, browsing through the CD insert, and hearing the record for the first time the day it comes out. Don't people have a sense of awe about music anymore?

Complaining about being called an indie kid also rules. Come on, we do it to ourselves people. We're posting on an independent record label's messageboard for Chrissakes. People have every right to generalize about us, because honestly we're pretty damn predictable.

I'm done now. Stuart, please do a show in Boston. I'd love to be able to drop everything and go to NYC, but life just keeps getting in the way.

[IamDamoSuzuki!]

Frankly i don't get the whole download before release thing. Being that pressed about 'new' music is a bit hipster, like you're trying to be the 1st on the block with the shiny new whateverthefuck. It's shortsighted too because there is plenty of music to listen to instead. Don't like recent mogwai? listen to your old mogwai cds. Want to support them financially? Send them money (well concealed cash 100s, 20s, whatever). Otherwise it's all a bit of business, they don't owe you some blood debt just 'cause you were really into them for like two years or whatever. & Social labels like 'Indie kids' always sound stupid and are never ever accurate in capturing the actual make-up and details of a 'click'. And for fucks sake back up your words if you're gonna offer your opinion. Don't just say this sucks, say "this sucks because..." and fill in the blank. Lacklustre, a step back, etc doesn't really relay much information about the music. and no bullshit rhapsodizing about 'aural landscapes' or any such verbal masturbatory practices. Just because the majority of rock critics are assbags full of hungover, stolen adjectives doesn't mean you have to perpetuate their lackwit spirit.

[Arkady]

Personally, I download albums before release because I can't wait for the release date to hear them. I just can't. It's not about being the cool kid who hears shit before everyone else. But there is some sort of perverse joy in hearing music early.

I haven't downloaded the Mogwai album, because I will wait for that one.

We're all music lovers here. We've all wished we could listen to the brand new album from Band X right the fuck now. For me, that's what downloading is all about.

[assorted]

Originally posted by Gerard
I think his comment wasn't directed so much at those who downloaded as much as it was towards those who downloaded and felt they had a right to pass public judgement on an unreleased work they've not paid for.

oh; you mean like rock critics? ;)

[Gerard]

I'd have no problem with Stuart or any other Matador artist taking rock critics to task. But I think there are some differences ;

1) rock critics are generally sent the finished, mixed, mastered and sequenced album...as opposed to MP3's they've downloaded early which may or may not be the finsihed version and may or may not the tracks in their entireity, etc. Considering the number of people who claimed to have had bits of 'Happy Songs' on their hard drives MONTHS before Matador was sending out copies to press, I really have to wonder which version of the album, abbreviated or not, they were passing judgement on.

2) unless they write for say, Vice, most reviewers have to use their real names...and can in some way be held accountable for their screwy opinions. Much harder to deliver a beat down with champagne bottle to someone on the internet.

GC

[jt. r]

i'm not a mogwai fan, but as a fan of the fall (which i imagine a lot of people are), i think that certain "fans" attempt to emulate the taste and affect of those they most adore in the rock world. for instance, ending not just every sentence, but every word with "uh" if you're a mark e smith fanatic, and considering most music that gets released to be "shite" even though said "fan" hasn't so much as a passport, let alone spent enough time in a country to pick up some colloquial phrases, like "shite" or "bullocks" (oh the wonders of the internet).
indie rock fans are much like callers to 660 AM on the east coast: for the most part they try to agree with their idols (or authority), or they attempt to level a criticism (sometimes not even hare-brained) and when rebuffed by the authority (in this case either the sports analyst or band member), the next priority is to get back to even before the call (or thread) ends, so as not to look out-of-step with the dominant opinion, and thus not be online opinion pals with say the head of their fave label or the frontperson of their (perhaps onetime) fave band.
then again, matador researches opinions on these mp3's in a pretty thoroughgoing fashion, not restricted to the mbb, as far as i can tell. NB the response to the 'Us' mp3 that was posted first from 'Pig Lib'. a lukewarm response circulated on the pavement list as soon as a few people voiced it being "Folk Jam" warmed over. one of the redemptive qualities of music is the ability to change your mind about it, and i came around to liking 'Us' more than i did initially.
personally i think a more interesting angle than slamming one band would be to check out the can't lose matador/pitchforkmedia connection that's been going on since the beginning of the year or so. even though matador struck gold by continuing to dig in the same vein, it's hard to believe that the so-kaldte cynics at pitchfork wouldn't drop the "7.3-7.7, i-didn't-really-listen-to-this-advance" bomb on them. that said, pretty girls make graves are pretty great. and i'll check out the new mogwai just for the hell of it.

[scurvy=rad]

...Unfortunately you have to agree w/ that fat f*ck Mike Francesa because that egocentric, self-proclaimed all-knowing genius can NEVER be wrong. Can you tell that he's never said "Excellent point" to anything I've ever said to him. (Usually it's "That's ridiculous" Click.) I sincerely believe I hate the man yet for some reason I am oblivious to, I can't stop listenting to him. Sorry, had to get that out. As for Braitwaite, get over it.