Sordid & Sentinel

[Emily As Well]

I would like to express the sentiment (please keep in mind for the next two reissues) that a wonderful job on packaging, a comprehensive collection of B-sides & rarites, new (if slight) liner notes, a beyond reasonable price, and spiffy pre-order bonuses are more than enough to get Pavement fans to invest in reissues of material they already purchased (or I suspect, in many instances, have downloaded). Pavement were economical lads. Indian-like (feathers not dots) they put every bit of what they caught to good use. The only reason I can imagine for these two little bits of instrumental nothingness to see the light of day is so we can say "unreleased material!!!" on the packaging.
Soul Food? Unncessasary, but a bit of a lark. A good time caught on tape. So, OK. Alternate We Dance? Interesting to some, I'm sure. Fine. Nobody has an original copy of Strayfire, so it's heard in fuzzy quality once again. A bit of a disapointment, but understood. I guess SM's Demos have been lost or deemed by the man himself unfit for release. Not suprising. But please someone explain to me the reason these two sub-fragments actually made the release?
They are so insubstancial it's a joke! We expected as much, but were assured "now, guys, you don't have it all yet!" Well.. what the hell? I'm as hurt and confused as one can be over something so insignificant. I imagine Spiral (who is absent liner-notes-wise why?) rummaging through tapes...

"Sorry, guys, there just wasn't anything left over."
"Scrape, boy! Scrape"

Oh Well. I guess everyone will overlook the problems with this and the previous reissue, so grateful are they for new Pave-stuffs. Be warned though! There is a treasure trove - three discs worth at least - of BTC-era stuff... and, possibly, actual goodies in the vaults! (Conjecture!) A potential TT reissue is probably harder to fill... (but don't let that deter you, I mantain it's a classic!) we'll probably have to stick a live show on there, probably won't get any more SM demos there either and will have to tout Shagbag as a lost classic, I'm fine with this.
But have no doubt, you deal with the stuff of legends. As such you are, in the end, responsible for the tiny shit smears that now appear on the radiant monument that is all things Pavement.

[calhoune]

Unfortunately I have to say I whole-heartedly agree with the above

[sashwap]

nicely put, emily.

i was also sad there was no commentary from spiral. what is there is good, though. i like the 7" version of "black out," as it's quite different. not better, but almost an entirely new song (ish).

[Patrick]

tiny shit smears?

This is what the band had to give us guys. We're pretty proud of this package and the previous one. (What were the "problems" there again?) Of course, as you're already aware, there is a lot more unreleased stuff from BTC than there was from WZ - partly an effect of WZ following CRCR much more closely and using material that had been written for the prior album.

I think the package is still a great deal at 18.98, is fully and gorgeously remastered, and contains tons of unreleased performances - but not songs, because there just weren't any.

Would you have preferred that we left the two brief instrumentals off the record?

The tapes containing the two tracks on the 7" were discovered by the band at the very last minute, long after the package had been prepared.

Patrick

[sashwap]

i am for one happy to own "sordid" and "sentinel" and happy that matador is doing their best to give us EVERYTHING. if there's one band that deserves to have even their shit smears released, it's pavement. obviously it's disappointing that they aren't full-fledged songs, but still, they're better than nothing.

anticipation for the BTC reissue is building! it's gonna be sweet, i can already tell. can't wait to hear that KCRW session in good quality, and possibly "for sale: the preston school of industry," unless that'll be on the TT reissue. and loads of unreleased songs..."nigel," "the polvo song," etc.

[donkeytooth]

I think it is just because the reissue was titled "sordid sentinels" that there was a lot of expectations upon these specific tracks as being something up to par with what was on wowee zowee. and if there is a lot of mixed things to say about this reissue it is just because Pavement are judged with such high criteria from this discerning bunch, and the Crooked Rain reissue raised that bar even further (i don't see how anyone can bitch about that one which is pretty untouchable to say the least). I love the record, but was a bit disappointed as i had most of these tracks already (except i swear my Pacific Trim didn't have I Love Perth) and that it was no VU-like holy grail like Crooked Rain with an albums worth of wonderful unheard songs like Hands Off The Bayou, etc. That being said i still LOVE the reissue. But what does one expect when the original album had 18 tracks? But everyone say nice things about it and buy it so matador does do a Brighten the Corners one and Terror Twilight.

Also i know that this is would be pretty traditional way of doing things and PAvement aren't a traditional band, but i think it would have been great for liner notes if a neutral third party/ rock writer/ Star Jones could interview Malkmus and explore these songs where they came from, what they mean, the process, etc. to further satiate geeks like myself. Malkmus' intro is great but a bit glib and not too revealing.

Whatever. Wowee Zowee is probably my favorite record of alltime and does the reissue heighten that and bring me some much needed joy? Yes. Kind of ironic that it is being greeted with mixed reviews again its second time around.

[Susan Kirk]

People who denigrate this package are ingrates who need to have their heads shaved.

[Emily As Well]

I tried to get accross at the beginning of my post that the reissue is, for the most part, fantastic. So I'm disappointed you felt the need to smudge it up. Sometimes you can dampen the lustre, rather than enhace... I don't think we need to hear everything the guys ever did inside a studio. Just because these two little bits were the only or best thing you could dredge up doesn't mean that they warrant release. I would've preferred it if you've left them off.
What purpose do they serve? Maybe you simply felt they were needed as proof that there wasn't anything unreleased of any value, as the pieces of lint floating from Pavement-Circa-WZ's out-turned pockets? Can you imagine someone popping in the reissue with the intent of listening to one, or including one in a mixtape? There is no law that double disc reissues need to include unreleased material. Anyone who is such a large fan of Pavement's music that they already have heard all the bonus tracks on this release know the history enough to not expect much in the way of lost songs. That was kind of my point. I myself had never heard the live Easily Fooled; FTG (or a very similar version) was paired with a similarly acoustic-y Range Life when I heard it (it also ended with SM saying "best song we ever recorded.")

And since you've mentioned it, I must ask: did the tapes found long after the reissue was prepared include anything else? I, for one, was hoping that Stray Fire would sound a bit better (it is the sole officially unreleased studio recording to ever find it's way out into the world). Pre-Tracklist I was also hoping for some SM demo action. Dancing w/ Elders is the demo for We Dace with some of the demo for 1/2 a Canyon tacked on the end, so I would assume there's more of them.

As for CR,CR, well, I guess it's a minor complaint but the recording information isn't all correct. Also, I personally don't like the lengths you went to to make it all fit. Everything is smushed together. The ending of 5-4 Unity (vocal) has been chopped off with a harsh edit, Exit Theory was reduced by about 10 seconds, and Rain Ammunition (the unlisted, vinyl-only, instrumental version, mind you) was left off completely (the sole overlooked, officially released studio recording so far). Of course, these are things most people would never even notice, but after the perfect treatment of S&E I was (a teeny tiny little bit) disapointed. I don't think the 2nd disc is entirely stellar either, but I think it's more understandable in that case.
Pavement had such a wealth of great material that it wouldn't be hard to simply slap it all together and have everyone applaud and brush aside anyone who dares to criticize. I'm not saying these aren't great, and I certainly love the material (and love having it all together and sounding, in most instances, better than ever). It just could've been executed a bit better. I voice this sentiment, because I hope the next two will be.

[Emily As Well]

Also, I Love Perth was vinyl-only (like quite a few Pavement tracks) so I'm assuming you've got the CD, donkeytooth.

[jef]

I think that given the haphazardness of Wowee Zowee, I expected and welcomed stuff like "Soul Food", cause that's what I always pictured when I listened to the album... It seemed like they were having a blast making it.

[Patrick]

Emily, I presume "you" in your post is addressed to the band? It seems like you're angry at the label for some reason - on both CRCR and WZSS - when we only presented what Pavement gave us.

Patrick

[bones]

I love this reissue. LOVE IT! I am so glad to have it in my possesion...
but yes...SORDID and SENTiINEL are a bit of a joke. they seem like they are more intros than actual songs. maybe like the intro on MOTION SUGGESTS ITSELF. I'm glad they are on the reissue but they are certainely nothing to get excited about.

[Jesper]

“As for CR,CR, well, I guess it's a minor complaint but the recording information isn't all correct.”

I explained to you, at the time, why that information was wrong. I also provided the more correct copy, credits that the band gave me. If these credits still aren’t to your liking there isn't much I can do about it. The band has over the years been more than a little vague about recording details. Perhaps they like it to remain that way. And perhaps they alone decide what they think is appropriate to list and what isn’t.

“I don't think the 2nd disc [of CR] is entirely stellar”

The band went out of their way to provide die-hard fans such as yourself with a wealth of unreleased material, material they obviously didn’t think was up to snuff at the time. I don't think anyone has claimed it was all 'stellar'

“Everything is smushed together. [re CR]”

Some is indeed smushed together. Would you have preferred ‘Nail Clinic’ not being on the disc (but still listed on the package)? Because that is what we would have ended up with. If it’s any consolation to you, SM agreed and approved of these edits. The very slow fade-up to Exit Theory was shortened (this surely cannot be an issue), and the end of 5-4 Vocal had to be edited (I can see a point to your complaint here). But these were compromises that had to be made in order to provide you with all the songs.

As for the earthshattering meaninglessness of “Sordid” and “Sentinel” on this here hatchet job of a reissue, or smudged-up reissue if you like – well, had we omitted these tracks from the disc our sticker still would still have stated “unreleased songs” – however, the words ‘or fragments’ immediately following would in all likelyhood no longer be on it. I see ‘Sordid’ as the interlude between the actual album and the ensuing single tracks, and I see ‘Sentinel’ as as the end of that chapter. Could ‘Sordid’ and ‘Sentinel’ have been replaced by silence – by all means. Could they have appeared unlisted – by all means, but I rather listed them in order for people to easily indentify songs with index points.

Also, Stray Fire was not found on any of the original reels, and it still has not been found. If it will be found we will add it to future pressings and offer it as a download or something. But it looks grim.

I have also heard about one or two other songs supposedly recorded during the WZ sessions, both SM and Spiral do kind of recall these now. However no one has these songs… this is Pavement after all, not keeping track of recordings is key to their universe. It also leaves fans guessing wildly about what remains out there, when they recorded what, what ‘demos’ Steve may have recorded, which songs they should put on a re-issue and which ones they shouldn’t and so on and so forth – hours of fun!

Toodle Pip

JE

[Jesper]

i just found this comment I made here a while back... maybe it clarifies things further about the inexcusable, and really quite unpardonable, offense of tight spaces between songs on CR disc one...


"
the Exit Theory thing is in fact from the last part of the song that opens disc two "All My Friends" which happens to be the "Everybody's Going Out Tonight" song you mentioned. I really should have left out Exit Theory as you get the whole original song now, and it would have freed up some space on the disc (it is 79:57!!!) but we printed the components before we mastered so I had no choice but to include it. You will see that disc one has some very short spaces between songs (not for the album, album spacing is the same as the orig album, but for the b-sides) in order to make it all fit. Might make the listening experience seem a bit choppy but in the name of Total Value there was no other way...
"

[sashwap]

Also, Stray Fire was not found on any of the original reels, and it still has not been found. If it will be found we will add it to future pressings and offer it as a download or something. But it looks grim.

I have also heard about one or two other songs supposedly recorded during the WZ sessions, both SM and Spiral do kind of recall these now. However no one has these songs… this is Pavement after all, not keeping track of recordings is key to their universe. It also leaves fans guessing wildly about what remains out there, when they recorded what, what ‘demos’ Steve may have recorded, which songs they should put on a re-issue and which ones they shouldn’t and so on and so forth – hours of fun!


wasn't there a fire at easley? maybe that could account for the missing stuff?

[bones]

I want to reiterate... I love the reissue. I REALLY love the CRCR reissue. not complaining at all.
now can we hurry up on the BTC reissue.

[Jesper]

yes there certainly was a fire at easley, sadly... i don't think any pavement tapes were there though

[Seneschal Gox]

Bah! "Sordid" and "Sentinel" are cool. They ought to be longer.

I, for one, would like to lament the fact that this thread has added a tiny shit smear to the glory that is the Matador Message Board. ;)