the bizness

[9000]

thread for discussion of the good, bad and ugly of the music biz (not necessarily matador approved...)

[9000]

patrick's post (http://216.220.96.163/showpost.php?p=52897&postcount=150) on release timing.

[9000]

patrick, thanks for the insight into release timing. basically, the model seems antiquated and due for a severe turning-on-its-head. i guess the good (or bad, depending on how you look at it) is that both physical music stores and paper-based music magazines are going the way of the dodo and will have much less of a say about release issues in the future when the entire cycle of creation to distribution is severely compressed.

[Patrick]

Change is in the air, true. But who can say whether print media and brick and mortar record stores will actually vanish. Their extinction has been predicted for quite some time now.

We'll see what happens this year - perhaps a tipping point has been reached - but it seems likely that the two worlds will continue to uneasily coexist (sometimes not so uneasily, when print media establish online outposts and record stores sell music digitally). So long as this is the case, record labels and bands will need to continue to play the balancing act. It certainly keeps life interesting.

Patrick

[Patrick]

Not to shift the blame, but like you mentioned above it seems that many of the leaks do originate on the European end of things. Is there a reason in particular that pre-release security isn't as strong over there?

We're completely baffled by this. Actually pre-release security is stronger in Europe - there's a longer tradition of copy-protecting and watermarking.

Patrick

[9000]

Change is in the air, true. But who can say whether print media and brick and mortar record stores will actually vanish. Their extinction has been predicted for quite some time now.

We'll see what happens this year - perhaps a tipping point has been reached - but it seems likely that the two worlds will continue to uneasily coexist (sometimes not so uneasily, when print media establish online outposts and record stores sell music digitally). So long as this is the case, record labels and bands will need to continue to play the balancing act. It certainly keeps life interesting.

Patrick

i don't think they vanish entirely, but i do think they become quite irrelevant. does this happen by next year? i don't think so, and because of the world isn't going to change overnight, i agree that labels have quite the balancing act to do in the interim. five years down the road, different ballgame. i get scoffed--rightfully so--'cause i don't have a record player, but i bet you'll soon have a slew of next-gen posters who don't even own a CD player, save for the DVD/CDR burner in their laptops.

[tinobeat]

Relocated from its own thread:

Biz question: mp3 downloads for the little guy
I'm wondering this:

My band is considering making our debut an LP-only release, against all better advice. I think putting a CD into an LP kind of defeats the purpose, and sort of comes across as "$10 CDr in a big jacket, with free vinyl LP!!" and I'd like to avoid that. Ideally I'd love to do the mp3 download with purchase thing...

So I'm wondering, is the service where you get the download code that's not offered by lots of labels a higher-end thing or could a little dude like me set up? Does matador do this in-house? I know Polyvinyl seemed to direct me to a 3rd party service but I can't be sure.

The other option would be the "put the whole thing up for a month for everyone tack" that Secretly Canadian did with the LP-only release of The Impossible Shapes' Tum, but I dunno...

obviously it'll be shared no matter what and that's fine, because that would only increase the number of ears at this point.

[dola]

Press (printed press, obviously) wants review copies in 3 months in advance of street. And no, national publications won't cover records after street date. (This is in contrast to the world of the early '80s, Trouser Press or Matter days, when it was common for reviewers to receive records when they were pressed... i.e. shortly before street date.) Almost all publications have their book planned by 2 1/2 months ahead of newsstand date. This means that writers and editors need to hear music and make their decisions 3 months ahead of newsstand... at least.
Patrick


To reiterate, this goes for music publications from Rolling Stone on down? It would seem that this process is inherently biased toward bands already at least one successful album deep, and against releases by new bands that gather momentum as time goes along. I guess word-of-mouth has to travel pretty fast in those cases.

[Patrick]

i bet you'll soon have a slew of next-gen posters who don't even own a CD player, save for the DVD/CDR burner in their laptops.

Absolutely right. If you go over to head-fi, the audiophile site for headphone enthusiasts, the average age is about 20 years younger than the main audiophile sites, and the signatures (which list equipment) tend to show sources as laptops and DACs. Frequently no standalone CD player.

Patrick

[Patrick]

So I'm wondering, is the service where you get the download code that's not offered by lots of labels a higher-end thing or could a little dude like me set up? Does matador do this in-house?

We have a custom solution, as I think Merge and Sub Pop do. Email me tino and I could put you in touch with our developer. Clearly he should box it and sell it as serverware or something!

Patrick

[bitterfruit]

I'm having trouble finding the precise article that I read talking about 2006 being a banner year for live music measured by revenue, but this article (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/yearend/2006/touring/index.jsp) on Billboard essentially reverberates the sentiment that revenue from shows are up compared to the previous two years.

Billboard: The Year in Touring (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/yearend/2006/touring/index.jsp)

[9000]

I'm having trouble finding the precise article that I read talking about 2006 being a banner year for live music measured by revenue, but this article (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/yearend/2006/touring/index.jsp) on Billboard essentially reverberates the sentiment that revenue from shows are up compared to the previous two years.

Billboard: The Year in Touring (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/yearend/2006/touring/index.jsp)

"The average gross per show in North America is $190,648, up 31% from 2005...And, better yet, the average attendance per show, basically the number of people attending concerts night in and night out, is 3,499, up 10.3%."

these stats sound arena and the large venue driven. i'm going to speculate that most of the establishments frequented by many of us here were omitted from this study. not to say the stats may not reflect a broader trend.

[mayorbloomberg]

"The average gross per show in North America is $190,648, up 31% from 2005...And, better yet, the average attendance per show, basically the number of people attending concerts night in and night out, is 3,499, up 10.3%."

these stats sound arena and the large venue driven. i'm going to speculate that most of the establishments frequented by many of us here were omitted from this study. not to say the stats may not reflect a broader trend.

i think that those stats are probably accurate and inclusive of venues that you attend. pollstar is a pretty across the board industry mag that promoters, managers, labels, tour managers, clubs and bands reference all the time. or at the least report their statistics too. you can always get info for many clubs 400 people or less. it may not include places like the smell, a dive all ages place here in LA but it definitely has small clubs. also you have to realize that many, many smaller venues across the country are booked by people that have a couple, if not a few, bigger rooms (bowery presents in nyc, goldenvoice here in LA). and if they don't, it is something they are striving to achieve.
all it takes is a few major tours charging upwards of $200/ticket to get that average gross up there and if you think about it 4,000 people is not a massive number. It's a lot but many people only go to concerts where there are at least that many attendees.

[9000]

okay, even if the figures are inclusive of small venues, the larger shows/acts seem to be totally skewing the results. median numbers would be more telling.

[bitterfruit]

One needs a subscription to Billboard Boxscore (http://login.vnuemedia.com/bbbiz/login/login_subscribe.jsp) to see full stats, but I agree that the much larger venues may act as outliers for the types of shows most people here generally attend. But then again, CD sales do the same thing.

Here's a sample of some of those outliers --- current boxscore (http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/charts/boxscore.jsp).

[9000]

"We are thrilled to work with Wind-up because they are a cutting-edge label with a fantastic roster of musicians," said Chad Hurley, CEO and Co-Founder of YouTube.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,66643.shtml

[bitterfruit]

"We are thrilled to work with Wind-up because they are a cutting-edge label with a fantastic roster of musicians," said Chad Hurley, CEO and Co-Founder of YouTube.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,66643.shtml

"The roster features Evanescence, whose worldwide sales have surpassed fifteen million copies; Seether, who have released three consecutive gold-certified albums; Finger Eleven, Scott Stapp and the entire Creed repertoire and approximately a dozen developing artists as well as hit soundtracks to feature films."

Simply mentioning Scott Stapp and Creed causes me to have a wild fit.

[dola]

with a name like "Finger Eleven", i'd bet there's lots of cutting-edge guitar wankery.

[Miss Tasty Princess]

with a name like "Finger Eleven", i'd bet there's lots of cutting-edge guitar wankery.I'm not getting my eleventh finger anywhere near a guitar . . . or anything else electrical.

[Funk]

with a name like "Finger Eleven", i'd bet there's lots of cutting-edge guitar wankery.

They started in the mid-1990s as a terrible funk-rock band called the Rainbow Butt Monkeys. Finger Eleven is actually an improvement.

[9000]

when, say, cat power covers gnarls barkley in concert, does someone come looking for some sort of payment from cat power? in theory, i'm guessing the publisher, artist and label of the work being covered get paid; in practice, i'm wondering if this sort of thing really ever gets enforced.

[Patrick]

9000, only the publisher and/or writer would have a claim in that instance (the label and original recording artist only having rights in their own recording of the piece, not the composition itself). I can't remember who owes money in this instance but a nagging feeling says it's the venue. Let me check.

Patrick

[Miss Tasty Princess]

It was definitely the venue in the past. When a friend of mine booked The Replacements around 20 years ago, he got a form letter after the show from either ASCAP or BMI demanding a list of covers played by the band. I guess by then they had a big rep for doing lots of 'em. :D

[9000]

the venue? wow, that's weird. seems really cumbersome for club owners.

[dola]

the venue? wow, that's weird. seems really cumbersome for club owners.

And music in general. If you're not selling instantly made cd's of that show (how's that company doing anyway?) then what's the problem? Real enforcement must only apply to people well-known to pull a lot of covers out or to be supporting an album like CP's 'Covers' record. Even so, though I'm not surprised by commodification of even this sphere, isn't this how what we consider folk music developed over, literally, centuries? The original songwriter is almost always credited either before or after the cover gets played anyway. It's a win-win!

[lesley]

ASCAP and BMI issue blanket licenses to venues, restaurants, coffee shops, etc....anywhere where recorded/non-public domain music is played, whether live, via radio broadcast, jukebox, etc. They absolutely do go around hassling business owners who don't pay for the license. Some venues will have a "no covers" policy to avoid this, most just pay up to avoid the hassle (I think it's a couple hundred bucks a year), but a lot of non-music spaces get really screwed with threats/suits/fines.

[tinobeat]

the venue? wow, that's weird. seems really cumbersome for club owners.

well, I know that venues pay a license fee to ASCAP or BMI, which allows bands to play covers in them. AS220 in Providence actually has a boycott against these, because they have political problems with paying licensing fees to cover the possibility that covers might get played and so they have these big signs saying that nobody's allowed to play ASCAP or BMI music unless the artists themselves are the copyright holder. Its kind of interesting. Major Stars still played their riotous Jimi Hendrix cover there multiple times...

If a venue doesn't pay this licensing fee, they can get fined if a band plays a cover in said venue.

[9000]

well, I know that venues pay a license fee to ASCAP or BMI, which allows bands to play covers in them. AS220 in Providence actually has a boycott against these, because they have political problems with paying licensing fees to cover the possibility that covers might get played and so they have these big signs saying that nobody's allowed to play ASCAP or BMI music unless the artists themselves are the copyright holder. Its kind of interesting. Major Stars still played their riotous Jimi Hendrix cover there multiple times...

If a venue doesn't pay this licensing fee, they can get fined if a band plays a cover in said venue.

every part of this, 'cept for the major stars covering hendrix, doesn't sound very rock n roll at all. pretty sad. enlighting stuff tho. thanks, everyone.

[mayorbloomberg]

while it sounds totally ridiculous. i don't acutally think it's that sad. at least in europe.
generally bands touring in the UK and Europe are given a form after their show and asked to write their set list down including song title, author and publisher.
and that is turned into the PRS (performing rights society) and they pay not only the author/publisher of any covers but the band themselves for performing their own songs.

it is my understanding that in the US ASCAP and BMI do this also but in some sort of random sampling statistics sort of manner. similar to how royalties are paid based on sampling of radio stations playlists.

but, as a tour manager, i have never filled out any forms in the states.

[Patrick]

B'lieve me, performing rights societies are *very* pre-rock'n'roll... and that doesn't stop many rock'n'roll songwriters from joining up with them.

When you write songs, it's nice to get paid.

Patrick

[Moon Pix]

and that is turned into the PRS (performing rights society) and they pay not only the author/publisher of any covers but the band themselves for performing their own songs.

I never ever knew that. Is that true? I always thought that an artists only payment for a live show was a set fee paid upfront or a percentage of the the ticket money. I never thought they got any performing rights royalties for the performance of their compositions afterwards.

[mayorbloomberg]

it's totally true. i have probably spent upwards of 20 hours of my life filling out the forms.
here's how some info about the UK (http://www.prs.co.uk/)

and here is how it works in the states (http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/music-royalties7.htm).

it's pretty convoluted but sorta makes sense if you give it a good read.

[Moon Pix]

Well in that case do most people copyright their songs as soon as they start playing out or it just something you do if youre offered a record deal?

[9000]

on the topic of royalties, this one will be tough on internet radio: http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/030207/index.shtml

[mayorbloomberg]

Well in that case do most people copyright their songs as soon as they start playing out or it just something you do if youre offered a record deal?
i believe that you don't have to copyright the material, other than actually recording it. Once it's recorded, it's copywritten and protected. Publishing is an entirely separate thing. I would say that most smart people would publish their music as soon as they have it recorded. You don't have to be famous or even known to have a publishing company license your work and place it in television shows, commercials, films, etc.
Basically it goes like this:
artist writes a record and registers it with BMI, ASCAP, etc. they do this by creating a publishing company. you see these all the time on the back of records, usually something witty, ie: sonic youth's: Sonik Tooth (BMI)
then either:
a licensing company will come along and license the rights to the song from the band. this means they will offer the band an advance on royalties generated by their music being placed somewhere. so they give the band $500,000. and the band doesn't make any additional money (neither does the licensor) until $500,000 has been generated. From $500,001 on the band and licensor will split the money in a pre arranged manner, usually the artist is receiving a higher percentage than the licensor. therefore it's in the licensors best interest to try to place the music in as many lucrative places as possible so that they make their money back (the original 500 g's already given to the band as an advance) and then make some more money. They also have an incentive to do this as quickly as possible because these deals usually only last 7-10 years at which point the rights to the music revert to the band. during this time though the licensor (as far as i understand it) can use the band as it sees fit and the artist can't veto anything the might have a problem with.

or

the band can hire someone to try to license the music for them. the main difference being that they don't get the lump of cash up front. and they can control it's use.

[lesleym]

As soon as the original work (song) is "fixed in a tangible medium of expression" (in this case, recorded or written out), the owner can claim copyright.

However, if you may ever be in the position to have to <i>defend</i> that copyright, it's a good idea to register the work with the copyright office (www.copyright.gov). You can do an entire album on one form, and it costs $45. This has much more solid legal standing than the "poor man's copyright" (that thing where you mail it to yourself).

[9000]

aside from itunes and emusic, are there any other (legal) sites that offer the matador catalogue for download?

[Patrick]

Many. Rhapsody, Napster, MSN and Audiolunchbox are the most well known for US consumers. There's a ton more for the Europeans and farther-flung fans.

Patrick

[Moon Pix]

It was definitely the venue in the past. When a friend of mine booked The Replacements around 20 years ago, he got a form letter after the show from either ASCAP or BMI demanding a list of covers played by the band. I guess by then they had a big rep for doing lots of 'em. :D

Using that same logic does this mean that when an artist covers a song on their record its the label that has to inform and pay the PRS and not the artist doing the cover? Would I be right in saying that the artist has to pay this money back to their label?

[Moon Pix]

artist writes a record and registers it with BMI, ASCAP, etc. they do this by creating a publishing company. you see these all the time on the back of records, usually something witty, ie: sonic youth's: Sonik Tooth (BMI)

How do you do that? Do you just say "I have a publishing company" and put its name on your records or do you have to sign loads of papers.

[Patrick]

How do you do that? Do you just say "I have a publishing company" and put its name on your records or do you have to sign loads of papers.

In the US, writers can just have the moneys paid to you directly under Copyright Control. However, it's highly advisable to register your songs with one of the big performing rights organizations in this country. They are BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. In order to register with them, writers must choose a unique pubco name. (This is why pubco names are often so weird or funny - it's a bit like naming a racehorse.) Of course, if you want to get paid under that entity, then you will have to incorporate or register it just like any other company.

In the UK, there's just one PRO, called the PRS I believe. In Canada its called SOCAN. I think this is the norm in most countries.

PROs collect the publisher's share for works that are "publicly performed" - this includes plays on the radio, plays in venues, ringtones etc., take a percentage for their administrative work, and remit the rest to the publishers.

Writers' pubcos (referred to as "writers' designees" or similar terms) often later sign admin or co-pub deals with small, medium or large publishers... much as recording artists - or the corporate entities they form to deal with taxes and income - sign with record labels.

[Moon Pix]

In the UK, there's just one PRO, called the PRS I believe.

Looks like theyve joined up with the MCPS (http://www.mcps-prs-alliance.co.uk/Pages/default.aspx).

[Miss Tasty Princess]

This is why pubco names are often so weird or funny - it's a bit like naming a racehorse.James McNew has the best publishing company name: "Excellent Classical Songs."

[Moon Pix]

PROs collect the publisher's share for works that are "publicly performed" - this includes plays on the radio, plays in venues, ringtones etc., take a percentage for their administrative work, and remit the rest to the publishers.

Does that mean that PROs don't have anything to do with the royalties earnt from selling records and that is just between the label and the artist?:)

[Patrick]

Does that mean that PROs don't have anything to do with the royalties earnt from selling records and that is just between the label and the artist?:)

You have to separate out publishing royalties, which are due to the songwriter, and record (or artist) royalties, which are due to the performing (recording) artist. Often these are the same person - Stephen Malkmus typically collects all the publishing royalties and all the record royalties for the sale of one of his songs. Often these are not the same person - the sale of Stephen Malkmus covering a Mellow Candle song only generates record royalties for him. The publishing royalties go to the songwriters.

None of this has anything to do with PROs, who collect publishing royalties for the public performance of songs, not the sale of songs.

Publishing royalties for the sale of songs are usually collected by mechanicals colleciton societies - publishing royalties of this type are called mechanical royalties, or mechanicals, since the right is being granted to "mechanically reproduce" (originally for a player piano or a music box, later for a record, then a cassette or CD, now often for a digital download) a given musical composition. In the UK, this is the MCPS. In the US, this is often the Harry Fox Agency, though just as often publishers collect the money directly.

[9000]

at least six indies to pull out of emusic. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070505/wr_nm/emusic_dc_1) where are you all gonna download all those victory record tracks now?

[dola]

i guess you could say that emusic needed a firestorm to purify.

[Moon Pix]

A question about mechanical rights (understood by me as being a royalty payed to a songwriter and/or publisher in enchange for the right to physically press one copy of a CD or piece of vinyl).

Does the label in question have to pay this money upfront to the songwriter everytime a new batch of records is going to be pressed or does the label wait for the sales figures to come in and pay the artist based on those? Basically I guess Im asking wether its based on the number of record pressed or the number of records actually sold.

[Patrick]

Basically I guess Im asking wether its based on the number of record pressed or the number of records actually sold.

Varies, based on the license. In the US it's generally the latter, subject to audit. In the UK, there are different levels of license issued by the MCPS depending on how established and trustworthy they find the label. A small indie often has to pay on records pressed. Big ones can pay on records sold.

[9000]

private equity goes after (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/business/media/22music.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) EMI. interesting times.

[bitterfruit]

private equity goes after (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/business/media/22music.html?_r=1&oref=slogin) EMI. interesting times.

There was a great article in the Economist recently about leveraged buyouts and using them to reference economic decline. Essentially, it says that when transactions associated with LBOs fail to close, trouble is afoot.

Fucking paywall: http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_JTVDSVG

[9000]

There was a great article in the Economist recently about leveraged buyouts and using them to reference economic decline. Essentially, it says that when transactions associated with LBOs fail to close, trouble is afoot.

Fucking paywall: http://economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=E1_JTVDSVG

urgh, paywall.

the main people i think about in this sort of LBO situation are the employees, who are pretty much fucked whether this transaction happens or not. i'd imagine things will get (are already) pretty tenuous for EMI artists as well. as for the PE firm and mgmt, them dudes are gonna be set. 'cause that's just how it is.

[9000]

wah wah: http://independentsources.com/2007/05/21/top-10-ways-emi-changed-by-private-equity/

[9000]

Relocated from its own thread:

Biz question: mp3 downloads for the little guy
I'm wondering this:

My band is considering making our debut an LP-only release, against all better advice. I think putting a CD into an LP kind of defeats the purpose, and sort of comes across as "$10 CDr in a big jacket, with free vinyl LP!!" and I'd like to avoid that. Ideally I'd love to do the mp3 download with purchase thing...

So I'm wondering, is the service where you get the download code that's not offered by lots of labels a higher-end thing or could a little dude like me set up? Does matador do this in-house? I know Polyvinyl seemed to direct me to a 3rd party service but I can't be sure.

The other option would be the "put the whole thing up for a month for everyone tack" that Secretly Canadian did with the LP-only release of The Impossible Shapes' Tum, but I dunno...

obviously it'll be shared no matter what and that's fine, because that would only increase the number of ears at this point.

hey tino, if you haven't already solved your conundrum, this may be of interest: http://www.neuroticmedia.com/03-services.html just stumbled upon it.

[Fiona]

Sad news - Fopp has gone into administration (http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2115200,00.html). For the last few years the Manchester branch has been a regular port of call for me on trips there.

The article also touches on the pressure HMV is under. I'm interested to see how viable the branch on Grafton St here in Dublin remains given their ground rent was more than doubled, increasing from c.€825K to €1.7m pa, in a recent rent review - and that figure was partly the result of arbitration.

[9000]

i think i speak for many of us when i say that i hope this news marks the potential return of maloze to the mbb. maybe they'll come back this time--as bloggers!

http://www.thealarmclock.com/mt/archives/2007/07/internet_brands.html

[Funk]

Hey look, Sympathy For The Record Industry is for sale: http://www.thedailyswarm.com/swarm/want-have-sympathy-record-industry-famous-label-sale/

[9000]

interpol (#4) and spoon (#10) in the billboard top 10. pretty amazing.

[Fiona]

Sanctuary sells Rough Trade to Beggars Group:
http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2133375,00.html (http://music.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,,2133375,00.html)

[Moon Pix]

20p a share? How the fuck is that possible. How can you buy half of a company for £10?

[9000]

20p a share? How the fuck is that possible. How can you buy half of a company for £10?

a company is typically comprised of numerous shares. # shares * price = total selling price.

[Fiona]

Moon Pix, the world of buyouts and price-per-share is determined on many things - authorised share capital, shares in circulation, institutional ownership (ie % of share owned by the general populus or by institutional investors - third party pension funds having a big say), debt, type of share (typically there are several issues other than those on the market with different attributes be they deferred dividends, increased voting rights etc) liquidity, and a whole host of other factors I'm far too pissed to get into. Anyway I'm not at work so averse to delving into work-stuff.

Suffice to say this deal has been beaten out to death and is reasonably fair for all concerned.

[9000]

The new owner of EMI Group PLC has said he will drop artists the music group believes are not working hard enough and will overhaul the company's own executives' pay packages, the Financial Times reported Friday.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071102/ap_en_bu/britain_emi_1;_ylt=Alp_jg_ywhivEJKsxYyssy4E1vAI

[bitterfruit]

WMG (http://finance.google.com/finance?q=wmg) reported.

$5mm on earnings of $900mm. What the fuck is wrong here?

[tinobeat]

I'm not sure I understand, as I don't speak financialese. What *is* going on there?

[Patrick]

A very low profit margin.

[tinobeat]

Ah, I see.. right, I guess that totally makes sense now, rereading Bitterfruits post. I went to the link and was kind of baffled and thought he might have been suggesting something else that was smarter than I was, hahah...

[9000]

I'm not sure I understand, as I don't speak financialese. What *is* going on there?

possibly a lot of hookers and blow.

on the surface, those numbers do sound sad. does wmg do anything other than put out records?

[Patrick]

The hooker and blow days are loooong gone at WMG. It's just a company run by a guy from the liquor biz who doesn't understand music. It's one of the two runty major labels (ironically, since it was the first conglomerate) facing down the two giants (Universal and Sony BMG) in a business where size matters now. It hasn't been particularly bright in the digital space. Worst of all, it hasn't had the hits this year, and that's all that matters in a major's business plan, after size.

They do have one very successful unit - ADA, our distributor, which is run by music guys and which distributes almost all of the really successful indie labels. Great company, great people, well run, very profitable for years now.

No, WMG don't do anything other than music - they were the music unit of Time Warner, spun off by Richard Parsons 6 years ago. Particularly sad, since they were the foundation of Time Warner (after Kinney Parking Lots).

[bitterfruit]

The hooker and blow days are loooong gone at WMG.


Google Finance may have a differing opinion.

WMG is listed as:

Sector: Services > Industry: Recreational Activities


I don't see how a company that large can sustain such razor thin margins for long without trying something radically different. There's a giant sieve through which the company's cash is flowing and it only going to get worse.

They really only beat analyst expectations because of the Napster settlement.

[9000]

poor shmoo: http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/magazine/15-12/mf_morris?currentPage=1

[baconfat]

No, WMG don't do anything other than music - they were the music unit of Time Warner, spun off by Richard Parsons 6 years ago. Particularly sad, since they were the foundation of Time Warner (after Kinney Parking Lots).

I like the part where I can just blame most things having to do with WMG's demise on Steve Case. It's probably not factually correct, but it works for me.

[9000]

It's just a company run by a guy from the liquor biz who doesn't understand music.

this (http://www.beet.tv/2007/11/edgar-bronfman.html) would benefit from a lot of liquor consumption.

[bitterfruit]

I like the part where I can just blame most things having to do with WMG's demise on Steve Case. It's probably not factually correct, but it works for me.


AOL+TW --> Worst.Merger.In.History


They probably should blame Steve Jobs more than Steve Case IMO.

[Lukas]

poor shmoo: http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/magazine/15-12/mf_morris?currentPage=1

Charging mobile phone users for a subscription to Total Music makes complete sense to me. It would challenge Apple's control over the digital download market and would make file-sharing pointless.

[dola]

The hooker and blow days are loooong gone at WMG. It's just a company run by a guy from the liquor biz who doesn't understand music. It's one of the two runty major labels (ironically, since it was the first conglomerate) facing down the two giants (Universal and Sony BMG) in a business where size matters now. It hasn't been particularly bright in the digital space. Worst of all, it hasn't had the hits this year, and that's all that matters in a major's business plan, after size.

They do have one very successful unit - ADA, our distributor, which is run by music guys and which distributes almost all of the really successful indie labels. Great company, great people, well run, very profitable for years now.

No, WMG don't do anything other than music - they were the music unit of Time Warner, spun off by Richard Parsons 6 years ago. Particularly sad, since they were the foundation of Time Warner (after Kinney Parking Lots).


Edgar Bronfman Jr. was born May 16, 1955 in New York. His father was a liquor magnate, and Bronfman wanted nothing to do with business. He didn't even go to college. He had loftier ideals - he worked on his music and eventually got his dad to help him bankroll the 1973 British film, The Blockhouse (1973), and The Border (1982), a star-studded flop. Around that time, Dionne Warwick recorded his song, "Whisper In the Dark". This level of success was not quite what his father had in mind for him, however, and in 1982 he asked him to join the company. Edgar, Jr. became CEO in 1994, the same year Seagram bought a share of Time Warner and he married Clarissa Allcock. They have three children - Bronfman also has three from a previous marriage.


Sounds like the Dolan debacle over at MSG. Old timey captains of industry like Meyer Guggenheim knew it paid to have many well-trained sons. You're always guaranteed a Fredo or some damn fool who goes off the reservation with some kind of prole cause or another.

[9000]

please buy my crappy blog.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/mixed-media/2007/12/07/gawkers-denton-shopping-music-site

[johansen smith]

The deal values Stereogum at $5 million
mind=blown

[dola]

i don't know what BuzzNet.com is or does, but it's quite a thing to imagine yourself saying, "Well, i've staked my career on the fortunes of BuzzNet.com."





"I'm Poochie the rockin dog!"

[vesper]

stereogum or brooklyn vegan, one of 'em, offers health insurance to their writers. the shock of being told that nearly put me in bed for a day.

[Paul]

I remember when stereogum was just a little livejournal page that Scott Lapatine updated four or five times a week. Now it's worth $5M?! The internet is retarded.

[johansen smith]

Imagine where all our blogs and websites could be right now if we hadn't grown up and abandoned them

[Lukas]

Imagine where all our blogs and websites could be right now if we hadn't grown up and abandoned them

I say all the regulars on this board should start a blog. There's such huge a knowledge base here. The only problem is that we would all have to get along... :)

[Paul]

The only problem is that we would all have to get along... :) Umm...says who?

[johansen smith]

I hope we can get cuneyt81 to contribute some great TrebleZine linx on the blog

[Lukas]

Umm...says who?

it was kind of a joke...you trying to start up with me Paul?

[johansen smith]

We're calling the blog Prose & Maloze, right. Bros Before Maloze?

[tinobeat]

isn't this kind of the "blog" anyway?

Its a log on the web, after all, of all of us throwing around bullshit and unsolicited opinions, haha...

[Paul]

Tino's right. The only people who'd want to read whatever we're writing are the ones writing it anyway. Taking this operation "public" would result in a colossal flop.

[johansen smith]

I think we can all agree on one thing though: it sure is fun to say the word "blog"

[Lukas]

I think we can all agree on one thing though: it sure is fun to say the word "blog"

it's a nice sounding word. this reminds me of an episode of This American Life where they interviewed a guy who believed his mood was dependant of the different notes that appliances or whatever made when he was around them. Like his fridge was humming the note "G flat 7th" and he became sad. haha

[9000]

great time in retail, unless you're a record store (http://idolator.com/336651/is-the-virgin-megastore-going-to-escape-from-new-york-in-2009). a little messed up, a lot of serious power brokerin'.

[9000]

are "fruits and flowers" (http://www.economist.com/business/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10498664) secret code for hookers and blow?

[dola]

After that tasty euphemism, I love this line.

But many observers reckon the private-equity men are out of their depth.

Even movie producer Jack Woltz knew that's not all just dollars and cents!

[9000]

if you've ever wondered about your fellow mbbers (http://www.quantcast.com/matadorrecords.com).

[Lukas]

if you've ever wondered about your fellow mbbers (http://www.quantcast.com/matadorrecords.com).
so the truth comes out -- we all love pitchfork.

[johansen smith]

To be fair that tracks visitors to Matador, not the Matador forum. Besides, we only read Last Nite's Party

[vesper]

does anyone truly "read" last nite's party?

[johansen smith]

How else am I going to be able to know what product from 1986 is being advertised on their $180 tshirts without reading

[dola]

sure, for their thesis some kid from vassar will 'read' it as a 'text' rich with blah blah blah.

[vesper]

haha, i actually thought, "well i suppose you could read it as a cultural text" before i posted the above. man i hate being such a joke (to myself).

[vesper]

gotta hand it to eMusic, the Selects series they kicked off this week seems to be doing well. for those of you who don't know:

from 17 dots, the eMusic blog:

Here’s how [eMusic Selects] works: a group of us at eMusic sit down every couple of weeks and listen to songs from unsigned or under-signed (your cousin put out your record, you self-released, etc.) artists. We then jot down on a piece of paper what we like and what we don’t, and discuss which artists would most properly represent eMusic. From there, we narrow it down to no more than two choices each month that we are wildly enthusiastic about: these are artists that we fully stand behind, people who we believe in, who we unquestioningly adore. (This is an ongoing, monthly effort: the next Selections are slated to hit the site on March 11.)

But what do the artists get out of it? So many developing artists right now are faced with an extremely uncertain and daunting future in the music business, so we want eMusic Selects to be one of the friendliest outlets available. Here’s what we proposed to each artist: you give us whatever music you want exclusively for 60 days, and we will do everything we can to encourage people to download it. That’s it. From there, it’s up to you: if you want to use us as a springboard for bigger things, by all means! We would be delighted if Selects became a launching pad for new artists.

i suppose that it didn't hurt to start with high places, who are as high profile as an unsigned band can be these days, i suppose, but the second band, breathe owl breathe, went from the 8th most downloaded artist yesterday to the 1st today (yesterday high places were #1, but they went off completely today). it makes me pretty happy that an online retailer is pushing something like this; and it makes me happier that it is being received so well!

oh, i haven't gotten the breathe owl breathe yet, but the high places stuff is ace. y'all should check it out.

[johansen smith]

Paul and I had a High Places discussion a couple weeks ago somewhere on this board, I agree they're great

[vesper]

if you've ever wondered about your fellow mbbers (http://www.quantcast.com/matadorrecords.com).

from that site:

Keyword Affinity
matador records 4332.6x
cat power 866.5x
pavement 656.2x
joy division 171.2x
pneumonia 9.8x <----- ????
wikipedia 3.3x
toys r us 3.2x <----- ???!!?!?!?!?
ipod 1.6x
youtube 1.6x
weather 1.6x
target

[vesper]

Paul and I had a High Places discussion a couple weeks ago somewhere on this board, I agree they're great

yeah, i got a 7" last year that is excellent - "shared island" b/w "universe," both of which end up on what they put together for eMusic. i'm really surprised that they aren't signed by now.

[9000]

patrick, can you say if you're generally more successful with online subscription service or pay-for-download sites? i'm defining success as total profit for matador and its artists. i'm guessing that subscriptions may account for more overall exposure/downloads, but less money per song and in aggregate.

[9000]

from that site:

Keyword Affinity
matador records 4332.6x
cat power 866.5x
pavement 656.2x
joy division 171.2x
pneumonia 9.8x <----- ????
wikipedia 3.3x
toys r us 3.2x <----- ???!!?!?!?!?
ipod 1.6x
youtube 1.6x
weather 1.6x
target

but wait, there's more:

Apparel Affinity
American Apparel 12.3x
Converse 2.7x
Zappos 2.1x
Urban Outfitters 1.3x

self explanatory.

Site Affinity
subpop.com 515.6x ---> ?! traitors!
pitchforkmedia.com 101.9x
americandiamondimporters.com 82.0x --> who's on the fence about getting married..?
movies.indiainfo.com 58.8x --> bitterfruit
skratchmagazine.com 53.9x
wilcoworld.net 51.1x --> someone isn't being forward about his listening pile.
wm10.allmusic.com 50.8x
greenplastic.com 45.3x --> i thought this was dola for sure, until i checked the site.
gramponante.com 40.1x
allmusic.com 29.4x
indiainfo.com 29.2x
nme.com 28.0x
neilyoung.com 24.9x
hypem.com 23.2x
brooklynvegan.com 18.8x
songmeanings.net 17.1x --> moonpix
wm02.allmusic.com 16.1x
store.americanapparel.net 15.3x
shop.musictoday.com 15.3x
wc07.allmusic.com 15.0x

[Moon Pix]

songmeanings.net 17.1x --> moonpix

Why do you think thats me?:confused:

[9000]

Why do you think thats me?:confused:

'cause you're so contemplative, dude! ;)

[dola]

greenplastic.com 45.3x --> i thought this was dola for sure, until i checked the site.



No, but last week I did pop in my vhs of Meeting People is Easy for the first time in years. What an amazing piece of work; I really think they're going to make it as a band.

[Moon Pix]

'cause you're so contemplative, dude! ;)

Thanks man. Im interpreting that as an earnest remark and not an ironic one.:)

[Fiona]

americandiamondimporters.com 82.0x --> who's on the fence about getting married..?
Most likely, you.

wilcoworld.net 51.1x --> someone isn't being forward about his listening pile
Most likely Missunderstood - don't you know your fellow mbb'ers by now?

[Moon Pix]

Most likely, you.


Most likely Missunderstood - don't you know your fellow mbb'ers by now?

Id just like to chip in at the moment and state something I havent said before on this board but have long felt:

I have a profound dislike of Wilco.

[johansen smith]

That's no way to get Ronen to start posting again

[Patrick]

patrick, can you say if you're generally more successful with online subscription service or pay-for-download sites? i'm defining success as total profit for matador and its artists. i'm guessing that subscriptions may account for more overall exposure/downloads, but less money per song and in aggregate.

Hmm. It depends what you're including in subscriptions. If you mean JUST sub sites per se, such as eMusic, Napster etc., then they are probably less both for total downloads/exposure and revenue. If you include streams, digital jukeboxes etc. like eCast, AMI, Rhapsody streams... definitely then your guess is correct.

And that's pay-for-download SITE. Not that there aren't some other ones that are selling, but you're looking at 95% to 5%.

And subscription SERVICE (no plural, like you did it).

The internet tends to favor one company in each category...

[9000]

Most likely, you.


35 years old and 2200+ mbb posts and counting.

[9000]

Hmm. It depends what you're including in subscriptions. If you mean JUST sub sites per se, such as eMusic, Napster etc., then they are probably less both for total downloads/exposure and revenue. If you include streams, digital jukeboxes etc. like eCast, AMI, Rhapsody streams... definitely then your guess is correct.

And that's pay-for-download SITE. Not that there aren't some other ones that are selling, but you're looking at 95% to 5%.

And subscription SERVICE (no plural, like you did it).

The internet tends to favor one company in each category...

so, if apple buys emusic, we shouldn't be surprised. actually, when apple, msft or google buys one of the majors in the next 12-18 months, we shouldn't be surprised.

[bitterfruit]

Did anyone already mention this TVT stuff (http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/news/48810-tvt-files-for-bankruptcy-trent-reznor-rejoices)?

I just heard about it today.

[9000]

i can't seem to recall this (http://interviewsarchive.com/catalogue/interviews/Matador%20Records%20Interview.mp3) ever being posted here. $600 is like $500K in today's dollars.

[Moon Pix]

I like that no bullshit style that Gerard seems to have.:)

[Paul]

Yeah. Also, I love it when interviewers get called out on half-assed "meta" questions.

[Moon Pix]

Yeah. Also, I love it when interviewers get called out on half-assed "meta" questions.

Sometimes I think journalists and interviewers like to force their own little narrative on the history of rock n' roll (such and such was a reaction to such and such etc). They kind of forget that for the people involved, wether bands or labels, they are simply doing what they are doing because they enjoy it.

As informative and interseting as they are, those Ian Svenonius interviews over at VBS.com are full of that sort of analytical, rock n' roll narrative meta talk and its kind of ridiculous sometimes how contrived he seems. He didnt get away with that contrived shit all the time though 'cause Ian McKaye called him out on it during their interview.

[tinobeat]

As informative and interseting as they are, those Ian Svenonius interviews over at VBS.com are full of that sort of analytical, rock n' roll narrative meta talk and its kind of ridiculous sometimes how contrived he seems. He didnt get away with that contrived shit all the time though 'cause Ian McKaye called him out on it during their interview.

Ian Svenonious has made a career out of self-conscious and tongue-in-cheek hyperbolic overanalysis and theatrical historical revisionism, I would hardly use him as an example of what's wrong with rock crit/history.

[Moon Pix]

Ian Svenonious has made a career out of self-conscious and tongue-in-cheek hyperbolic overanalysis and theatrical historical revisionism, I would hardly use him as an example of what's wrong with rock crit/history.

I really don't understand why over here people say that Americans don't get irony 'cause if I get you right and you're saying that he's taking the piss you quite obviously do.

[dola]

i don't doubt that there's a good sense of humor there, but if the implication is that it's also somewhat disingenuous, a book like the psychic soviet, scattered and not quite as scholarly as it might think it is, would make that assertion sorta problematic. unless i'm not getting the joke!

whatever, the terry hall interview was great. is 'narrative meta talk' defined as attempting to contextualize art within the social forces surrounding the artist/distributor at any given period? i don't disagree that just like any other lens it can be employed in a lazy way, but it's a better starting point than writing everything off to, "they are simply doing what they are doing because they enjoy it." to poorly paraphrase mcluhan though, it maybe unfair to actually ask the fish (gerard) to define water.

[Patrick]

I thought psychic soviet was embarrassing. "Not quite as scholarly"? Try not scholarly at all. Total joke.

[tinobeat]

Nation of Ulysses & Make Up are two of my all time favorite bands, but I'm happy to keep Ian Svenonious' hilarious ramblings to liner notes. I don't want to see it translated, tongue in cheek or not, into anything pretending to be anything other than hilarious liner notes.

The long and short of it is that, though I love him as a performer, I haven't and won't indulge him by reading that book...

[Moon Pix]

is 'narrative meta talk' defined as attempting to contextualize art within the social forces surrounding the artist/distributor at any given period?

I guess I am saying that but I don't want it to sound like I have anything against that persay. As a matter of fact, that sort sociology is what I love about Rip It Up and, very often, those VBS interviews. I just think it should always be remembered that the primary driving force for all performance and creativity is enjoyment and getting your frustrations out. I think that is why Shaun Ryder seems a bit confused or taken aback at times in their interview, not because he's an idiot but because he probably never thought of it as anything beyond having a good time and getting wrecked.

That sort of thing should be taken into account as well as all of the meta narrative stuff. We tend to contextualise things in retrospect but Im guessing thats because the thrill of the moment has passed and we need to think it has some worth beyond the moment. This is basically what Ian McKaye says about Dischord in his interview with Ian.

[dola]

I thought psychic soviet was embarrassing. "Not quite as scholarly"? Try not scholarly at all. Total joke.


i was being generous but my point was that, essays about Swedish girls aside, he seems sincere with it.

Patrick i'm too tempted to not ask: have you've ever read Michael Parenti's The Assassination of Julius Caesar: A People's History of Rome? I might pick it up soon and was curious to know your thoughts, and perhaps a couple of other worthwhile books on the period for the layman. I mean, besides Rome the HBO series.

[Patrick]

I don't know the Parenti book, and my learning is somewhat out of date. The best republican/imperial work that was happening when I was last into it was by Peter Garnsey. On the more populist tip, you can NEVER go wrong with Arnaldo Momigliano and Moses Finley for republican and imperial Rome.

My period is more late Rome into the post-imperial states, of course, and there the writer to go for is Peter Brown. 'The World Of Late Antiquity' is un-put-downable and richly illustrated to boot, a rare example of scholarly writing that's unabashedly popular as well. All his books are magnificent, and even the most abstruse are beautifully written and comprehensible by the layperson. 'Augustine Of Hippo' is a must if you want to understand the period and the mentality that put sexual guilt and shame into our lives (along with concepts of personal responsibility and conscience, you have to take the good with the bad); follow it up with 'The Body & Society' and 'The Lives of the Saints.'

Right now I'm reading Chris Wickham's 'Framing The Early Middle Ages: Europe and the Mediterranean, 400-800' which is the first new synthesis of the entire period in years and years. It's a commitment and a doorstop at nearly 1000 pages, but with clear, no-nonsense prose and an organized mind at work... for the commited layperson, let's say.

Sorry, got far away from the haut-empire and ... this thread, which I think is supposed to be about the music biz. I don't often get a chance to talk about this stuff.

[dola]

so awesome. thank you.

[9000]

British singer Paul McCartney has reached a $400 million agreement with iTunes for the distribution of the Beatles' back catalog.

so, by my math, at a royalty of let's say, $.65 song, that's like 620M song downloads before breakeven. are the beatles that popular?

[baconfat]

If Apple can come up with some sort of Beatles-themed iPod (similar to the U2 one), they'll make that money back in a week.

I, too, am confused by the chomping-at-the-bit attitude amongst people to have the Beatles catalog on iTunes - it's not like you can't find all their material on CD at just about any retail outlet that carries music. You can buy the Beatles 1 CD on Amazon.com used right now for less than 7 bucks. Thats' 27 songs, which would run you $26.73 to download individually.

[Elijah]

are the beatles [I]that popular?They are pretty popular.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Beatles catalog gets used as a vehicle for a new digital format, i.e. high resolution 5.1 surround sound. I am sure they're developing that for the Apple TV, and since they're not about to get an ounce of help from Universal, BMG or Warner Brothers in implementing such a format, they need a catalog with mass appeal to make the format viable from day one.

[9000]

US stock market crashes tomorrow.

[johansen smith]

US stock market crashes tomorrow.
Thank God we can blame the Irish

[pabost]

Does anyone know a good resource for learning about audio formats (e.g. mp3, org vorbis, WAV, etc . . .)? Thanks.

[9000]

Does anyone know a good resource for learning about audio formats (e.g. mp3, org vorbis, WAV, etc . . .)? Thanks.

wikipedia ain't a bad starting point.

[pabost]

wikipedia ain't a bad starting point.

Word. I thought that might work. Thanks.

[9000]

please buy my crappy blog.

http://www.portfolio.com/views/blogs/mixed-media/2007/12/07/gawkers-denton-shopping-music-site

so, buzznet actually went through and bought sterogum and idolator. kids, dreams come true; go freshen up those blogs.

[Elijah]

Just a question to the Matador folk: did most people who ordered the Jay Reatard single through the Matador Store also order something else? Personally, any time I order a 7" single through mail order, I’m probably going to pad my order with another item, so the shipping charge doesn’t feel so exorbitant. I guess this is a roundabout way of me suggesting that more Matador artists release limited edition singles. Because it will probably lead to me buying more stuff.

[tinobeat]

Speaking for myself, I got the Real Emotional Trash LP along with this single. I bought the Love of Diagrams single and a T-shirt with the TNV single.

I almost never order just one 7", its a waste of postage/packaging!

[Miss Tasty Princess]

I almost never order just one 7", its a waste of postage/packaging!
Ditto!

[otto midnight]

matador did not waste any packaging on that jay reatard single, that is for certain.

[Fiona]

Well I was going to query the postage to here then it slipped my mind. It might be worth reviewing the rates to Europe. I understand that rates have increased over the last few months, and of course I don't expect handling and packaging to come free of charge but still there's a significant gap between the $6.30 it cost to post the single and the $10.50 billed.

As regards the packaging, it struck me that 7"-sized mailers could be more cost effective than huge padded envelopes if size as well as weight contributes to post charges. In my experience they provide as much protection as the envelopes. I subscribe to the Too Pure Singles Club which are delivered in 7" card mailers and not one has arrived in less than pristine condition. Also the card mailers are more environmentally friendly being plastic-free :)

[Patrick]

To answer a bunch of you at once:

- Yes, a lot of people ordered more than just the 7", which was great. Amazingly, we're so dumb it hadn't occurred to us this might be the case.

- A really foolish intern who shall not be named (a) wrapped some 7"es in newsprint that smeared the covers and (b) put them in floppy envelopes. Replacement sleeves will be mailed out at our cost to anyone who got a fucked-up copy. Write to dean@matadordirect.com

- The future 7"es will go out in sturdy 7" mailers (or sturdy larger mailers if you ordered other stuff) and this will not happen again

- Fiona, I'm looking into your postage / S&H discrepancy

- tino, have you still not gotten the burma vinyl? i'm on tenterhooks awaiting your comments on the packaging!

[Elijah]

Yes, a lot of people ordered more than just the 7", which was great. Amazingly, we're so dumb it hadn't occurred to us this might be the case.I think it would be pretty cool if this resulted in more artists who are on independent labels that do mail order releasing non-album singles.

[Fiona]

- The future 7"es will go out in sturdy 7" mailers (or sturdy larger mailers if you ordered other stuff) and this will not happen again

- Fiona, I'm looking into your postage / S&H discrepancy

Great stuff Patrick, thanks. A few US based people have mentioned the value of ordering multiple items, don't know if that can apply to Europe? Some sites don't cater for for it and some do. I ordered the single alone as there wasn't a cost benefit in ordering more than that (aside from a one-track mind driven by panic at the time :D). Sorry if I seem to be moaning all the time. Elijah's suggestion of a turntable-less, US based proxy recipient plan has been set in motion.


- A really foolish intern who shall not be named (a) wrapped some 7"es in newsprint that smeared the covers and (b) put them in floppy envelopes. Replacement sleeves will be mailed out at our cost to anyone who got a fucked-up copy. Write to dean@matadordirect.com

So is Flatbush Gardens *really* the best rental value in New York?

[tinobeat]

- tino, have you still not gotten the burma vinyl? i'm on tenterhooks awaiting your comments on the packaging!

And *I'm* on (looking up meaning to make sure I've got it right... oh OK, got it) tenterhooks myself to get 'em! Its a kind of a matter of an embarrassment of riches! Never *quite* flush enough in to throw down for all three, I've been hemming and hawing on which to get first and bla bla bla and really there's no excuse. I need to just bite the bullet and start picking them up, all at once or separately, any day now! Hell, I should walk down to Newbury St. today, it'll be sunny and 70-something...

[dola]

- A really foolish intern who shall not be named (a) wrapped some 7"es in newsprint that smeared the covers and (b) put them in floppy envelopes. Replacement sleeves will be mailed out at our cost to anyone who got a fucked-up copy. Write to dean@matadordirect.com



Oh man. This brings up bad memories. As Marty McFly would say, "go easy on him(/her)."

[winterversion]

- A really foolish intern who shall not be named (a) wrapped some 7"es in newsprint that smeared the covers and (b) put them in floppy envelopes. Replacement sleeves will be mailed out at our cost to anyone who got a fucked-up copy. Write to dean@matadordirect.com



I got mine wrapped in an issue of village voice, but it wasn't smeared at all. I actually thought it was kind of cool.

[Elijah]

I thought the newspaper wrap was a way of giving the 7" a pre-dog-eared, vintage appearance. Like jeans that you buy with the holes already in them. Not my thing, but whatever. I got over it pretty fast.

[Patrick]

And *I'm* on (looking up meaning to make sure I've got it right... oh OK, got it) tenterhooks myself to get 'em! Its a kind of a matter of an embarrassment of riches! Never *quite* flush enough in to throw down for all three, I've been hemming and hawing on which to get first and bla bla bla and really there's no excuse. I need to just bite the bullet and start picking them up, all at once or separately, any day now! Hell, I should walk down to Newbury St. today, it'll be sunny and 70-something...

I felt bad even saying something... talking of the LPs if you had to choose, obviously Signals and Vs. for the music and video content... and Signals for the packaging.

That said, the Horrible Truth booklet contains some really nicely reproduced B&W photos. But spring for 1 and 2 before 3, I'd say.

[tinobeat]

I felt bad even saying something... talking of the LPs if you had to choose, obviously Signals and Vs. for the music and video content... and Signals for the packaging.

That said, the Horrible Truth booklet contains some really nicely reproduced B&W photos. But spring for 1 and 2 before 3, I'd say.

Aw, don't feel bad! I already have the OG Ace Of Hearts Signals, but its also far and away my favorite, so I'd probably get that one first anyway, but Eventually all three will certainly be in my greazy hands! The sheer weight of them (I've held Vs. at a store) has me very excited!

The only one I not as familiar with, having never owned in any form, is Horrible Truth...

[Patrick]

The only one I not as familiar with, having never owned in any form, is Horrible Truth...

That was a bigger deal when it came out, becase it showcased a bunch of songs that had been hits as radio tapes in Boston but never released: Peking Spring and Dirt mainly. Then the radio tape versions came out on the Taang! records.

There are two absolutely vital moments though... "Tremelo" (aka Trem One) and their cover of "Heart of Darkness." I love the new "Weatherbox" too.

[dola]

Studios win $111 million judgment against TorrentSpy.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050703058.html)


Not to be disrespectful on this board, but I hope the RIAA doesn't get any bright ideas.

[Fiona]

Something that came to mind last summer, but I forgot about until listening to Lavender Diamond and Belle and Sebastian this week: What impact, if any, does Rough Trade now being part of Beggars Group have on future releases either in the US or ROTW? Please ignore if it's something you don't want to comment on.

[9000]

The LA Times reports (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-nicholas6-2008jun06,0,3694173.story?page=1):

A federal grand jury has indicted Henry T. Nicholas III on fraud charges, according to documents unsealed today that also accuse the Orange County billionaire of supplying customers with prostitutes and drugs and slipping Ecstacy into the drinks of unwitting technology executives.

“Defendant Nicholas spiked the drinks of others with MDMA (ecstacy) without their knowledge, including . . . the drinks of technology executives and representatives who worked for Broadcom’s customers,” the indictment alleged without identifying the victims.

On a flight from Orange County to Las Vegas aboard a private plane, the government alleges, Nicholas used and distributed drugs, “causing marijuana smoke to enter the cockpit and requiring the pilot flying the plane to put on an oxygen mask.”

Nicholas, who stepped down as Broadcom’s chief executive in 2003, surrendered to the FBI this morning, said Pete Norell, a supervising FBI special agent in Santa Ana

Nicholas is alleged to have used death threats and payoffs to conceal his “unlawful conduct.” In June 2002, he reached a $1-million “settlement agreement” with an unnamed Broadcom employee who knew about his alleged illegal drug activity, according to the indictment.

It lists three properties described in previous Times reports about Nicholas’ alleged indulgences in drugs and prostitutes:

* An equestrian estate in Laguna Hills, where Nicholas had constructed a warren of tunnels and underground rooms, including one that contractors alleged was intended to become a secret “sex lair.”

* A warehouse-office complex in nearby Laguna Niguel, which contractors said was used for the same purposes and nicknamed “The Ponderosa.”

* A Newport Coast residence where Nicholas was trying to start a record company and where rock groups frequently visited.

[Fiona]

This year seems to be the busiest for Matador in quite some time - where does 2008 rank in terms of releases, past and planned?

[Patrick]

After a year in which we had 28 releases - I think it was during the Warp period, so 1999 or 2000 most likely - we decided to cut back. The following year had 22 releases, and then we succeeded in moving down to a goal of 12-13 releases per year. That's where we stayed, on average, until last year, 2007, when we had only 6.

That was not planned, and part of the reason was that some records like Dead Meadow and Cat Power were delayed. So that contributed to a higher number for 2008. When you add in Jay Reatard and Fucked Up and the propensity of punk artists to generate vast quantities of singles, you get a ton of releases this year. I think we're currently looking at 32-33 including singles. Jesper and Mark Ohe are slammed.

[dola]

Jesper and Mark Ohe are slammed.


Since we're on the subject, what bands off the top of your head, do their own album artwork/layouts entirely?

[dola]

A Digital Music Store That Sells More Than Just MP3s (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/technology/30topic.html)

“For us, music merchandise is where the profit is,” said Hot Topic’s president, Jerry Cook.


Indeed.


http://www.atruk.com/usrimage/paramoreumbrella.jpg

[winterversion]

After a year in which we had 28 releases - I think it was during the Warp period, so 1999 or 2000 most likely - we decided to cut back. The following year had 22 releases, and then we succeeded in moving down to a goal of 12-13 releases per year. That's where we stayed, on average, until last year, 2007, when we had only 6.

That was not planned, and part of the reason was that some records like Dead Meadow and Cat Power were delayed. So that contributed to a higher number for 2008. When you add in Jay Reatard and Fucked Up and the propensity of punk artists to generate vast quantities of singles, you get a ton of releases this year. I think we're currently looking at 32-33 including singles. Jesper and Mark Ohe are slammed.

I've always been impressed by how much matador has released since its inception in 1990. It's pretty astounding, actually, when you break it down. Over 18 years, we're coming up on, roughly, OLE 830. That averages out to about 46 releases a year! This is, however, counting digital releases, european releases, and albums that were planned but scrapped (there must be at least a dozen of those). Still, it's a very impressive output.

[Patrick]

winterversion: thanks.

Since we're on the subject, what bands off the top of your head, do their own album artwork/layouts entirely?

Well, anything that's licensed, in general... e.g. Belle and Sebastian, Mogwai, all the Warp records we did... those came in fullly done. The Times New Viking artwork came in fully laid out including Matador logos and catalog numbers, and laid out as hard copy exactly as you see it in the packaging - old style. Brightblack Morning Light design their own artwork in detail, though they then work to tweak it with Mark Ohe.

But even fully laid-out artwork usually requires tweaking to put it into spec for our printers and plants, plus for each format. Not to mention legal lines and logos. And then the marketing and sales departments have to weigh in... digipaks up till recently required topcaps so that they're identifiable from above in chainstores. Artwork without the band name on the front, or with the band name small or on the bottom, requires a sticker at upper left. Etcetera.

[johansen smith]

I'll never forget Mark Ohe assisting schoolchildren in making Pavement covers in What's Up, Matador?

[Futureman]

Switching gears for the moment-

Are we ever going to hear the full story behind the Prosaics debacle? Perhaps I have the wrong band in mind...

[johansen smith]

Weren't they just signed to release a full-length on Matador but then broke-up before they could deliver one?

[larry]

god, the new sub pop singles club line-up looks ridiculously horrible...wtf?

[TheSadDebaser]

Om, Tyvek, Mika Miko, and Notwist? that looks pretty great to me.

[tinobeat]

Om, Tyvek, Mika Miko, Blues Control, Black Mountain, The Black Lips, Notwist, Unnatural Helpers (looks to be some kind of Kinski/A-Frames meetup, which could be rad). Sounds pretty sick to me.

[Fiona]

Om, Tyvek, Mika Miko, Blues Control, Black Mountain, The Black Lips, Notwist, Unnatural Helpers (looks to be some kind of Kinski/A-Frames meetup, which could be rad). Sounds pretty sick to me.
I snapped one up - only $15 extra for overseas shipping, sweet deal.
Loving my Too Pure singles as well, it'll be very sad when the last one arrives.

edit: tinobeat, you didn't blow up or anything after passing 4000 posts? Disappointing.

[larry]

I'll grant blues control...but the rest of that...

[tinobeat]

Well, Larry, good thing for you that subscribing is totally optional!

I dunno, I really like at least half of the bands on the list, like another few are OK, and then there's a couple more to be announced. On a shallow tip, I have never not MADE money off the Sub Pop Singles Club selling singles I don't care about as much by popular bands (hello! $60 for the Get Up Kids single! O hai $40 for the Luna single, my subscription paid for itself!).

I'm usually not craven like that, but when its a singles club and there's at least a few that I really want, I can't help but look around and see if the ones I don't care about will help fund the endeavor later on down the road.

Even if none of them work out like that, though, I'm totally happy getting singles by 5-6 awesome bands that I like a lot and a few more that might turn out awesome (some of my favorite Singles Club v2 singles were by bands I'd never heard of before subscribing).

[larry]

t-dogg, please don't capitalize my name. that makes me very uneasy. har

well, true, one doesn't really have to buy anything music-wise, correct?

I've emailed my connections at sub pop with a list of bands and artists I'd like to see replace these losers. here they are:

tortoise
kenny rogers
woods
nirvana
grouper
birds of maya
mayo thompson
tortoise
xeltrei
st. johnny
wayne rogers
jack white

we'll see what they say.


black fucking moutain? really? jesus...

[tinobeat]

sorry LArRie :)

Black Mountain, though their new record is something of a snore, have GREAT singles. "Druganaut," and "Bicycle Man" are totally sweet.

You should start your own singles club with that list. I mean, it'd be an investment up front, but it should sell out in a snap with names like that so show Sub Pop how its done!

[Miss Tasty Princess]

we'll see what they say.
If it was my label, I'd either tell you to fuck off or start your own label if you hate my bands so much.

[larry]

sorry LArRie :)

Black Mountain, though their new record is something of a snore, have GREAT singles. "Druganaut," and "Bicycle Man" are totally sweet.

You should start your own singles club with that list. I mean, it'd be an investment up front, but it should sell out in a snap with names like that so show Sub Pop how its done!


AND, I might get to meet kenny rogers!

[larry]

If it was my label, I'd either tell you to fuck off or start your own label if you hate my bands so much.


lucky it's not your label MCI...I'd totally cry a lot if I got that reply back.

[Miss Tasty Princess]

lucky it's not your label MCI...I'd totally cry a lot if I got that reply back.
So why is it you feel the need to tell labels you hate their bands and they should take your advice on bands they should sign instead? Isn't it easier to just not purchase music you don't like and let the market help the label make their decisions?

Or is it just a public snob persona that you like to promote?

[larry]

So why is it you feel the need to tell labels you hate their bands and they should take your advice on bands they should sign instead? Isn't it easier to just not purchase music you don't like and let the market help the label make their decisions?

Or is it just a public snob persona that you like to promote?


look MCI...does this really need to be explained? I didn't really email sub pop about the shitty bands they have lined up for their new singles club.

I was joking.

are you okay now? I pray you got that news before you jumped off of a tall building or something radical.

I'm not sure why you're always shilling for labels and crying when anyone knocks any label...it's a bit strange...I like sub pop a lot, truthfully. they're put out a lot of records I dig over the years.

[larry]

ps...that's it. I'm changing my long distance over to sprint.

[Miss Tasty Princess]

look MCI...does this really need to be explained? I didn't really email sub pop about the shitty bands they have lined up for their new singles club.

I was joking.

are you okay now? I pray you got that news before you jumped off of a tall building or something radical.

I'm not sure why you're always shilling for labels and crying when anyone knocks any label...it's a bit strange...I like sub pop a lot, truthfully. they're put out a lot of records I dig over the years.
The inclusion of Kenny Rogers was a pretty obvious giveaway.

Wanna point out where I've been shilling for labels or crying when someone knocks them?

[larry]

The inclusion of Kenny Rogers was a pretty obvious giveaway.

Wanna point out where I've been shilling for labels or crying when someone knocks them?

sure! thanks for the opportunity. first, I'd like to thank my mom and dad and my dog. I'd also like to thank my first grade teacher, mrs. sparks. everyone else thought she was a mean witch, but I dug the shit out of her.

okay.

well, I think you were one of the people who pooped out a big log right in their pantelones when I said the current matador roster was pretty crappy. weren't you all, (give it the voice of any golden girl you'd like, for big enjoyment) "well, I've NEVER ever heard of a person signing up for a label's message board when they're not ready to give a complimentary blowjob to ever artist on the label. why, it's positively maddening!"

or something like that

[Miss Tasty Princess]

You certainly have a knack for blowing things out of proportion, don't you? Commenting that your behavior was dickish is hardly "shilling" for the label. I'm sure they're quite capable of handling their own promotion. And nowhere did I even hint at a suggestion that anyone is required to like every artist on a label.

I don't give a rat's ass what bands and/or labels you do or do not like. You give yourself far too much credit.

[larry]

then why the fuck are you crying about it, dude? it seems like you really do care...which is certainly peculiar...but whatever floats the boat, guy...

[Miss Tasty Princess]

I'm not "crying" about anything. I'm saying you were, and are, acting like a jerk. All there is to it.

[larry]

I'm a jerk because I express the opinion that the line-up of bands for the new sub pop singles club is shitty?

on an internet music message board...

hmm...

o-k- dude.

you're okay, man. just count to ten. everything's gonna be fine.

[otto midnight]

do not feed the trolls. but larry, seriously, don't switch to sprint. they fucking blow and have me in what amounts to indentured servitude for the next 16 months. god damn they blow.

[larry]

someone's a "troll" because they don't like the line-up of the sub pop singles club?

dude...get real...

but yeah, I guess I'll stick with MCI. I like his style. it's haughty and fruity, and I'm a modern guy.

[Miss Tasty Princess]

I was referring more to your attack of Matador's roster the other day. Not because I love every band on Matador and not because I was outraged that you dare criticize Matador but because it was childish and rude. That bit you paraphrased of what I wrote was sarcasm; you're hardly the first person to think he's really clever for making a lot of noise about how terrible the bands are on whatever label is hosting the forum on which you are participating. Hell, you're not even the first person to do it on this board.

[larry]

believe me, MCI, I never ever think I'm being "clever" when I'm posting on an internet message board. I sure hope you don't either.

it's really not childish to point out that matador's got a whole lot of shitty bands going right now. it may be a case of being too up front about pointing out the obvious.

let me tell you a short story...I used to work at a business. it was the sort of business where people might tend to come around and hang out a bit. one guy who used to hang there was named mark. mark was a retarded guy with a huge beer gut. when mark would see an african american person walk by, he'd run to the door and yell "nigger"...mark didn't have a whole lot going for him. mark also thought he was the smartest guy in the world. sometimes it would get to me. I was young. my boss used to tell me, "when you argue with mark, you put yourself on his level." I think this sort of might be the lesson you're sweating to give me right now. am I wrong? like, it's so sad and pathetic that the label that put out slanted & enchanted now puts out shit like jay retread and the new vikings...just leave them alone...you know, MCI, I think you've got an excellent point. consider me a changed man.

if you can take time out of your busy schedule to post a concerned rant at 5:06 am, then I can certainly eat my opinions about the matador roster. I will be on my computer, unblinking, as the moment comes to pre-order the jay retread gay erotica 7". I'm "joining them".

thank you, from the bottom of my heart,

larry

[Elijah]

I’m just going to suggest once more that an “ignore posts by this user” option would make this board a lot more enjoyable.

[Miss Tasty Princess]

it's really not childish to point out that matador's got a whole lot of shitty bands going right now. it may be a case of being too up front about pointing out the obvious.
Yep, childish, rude and insufferable. Fuck off, thanks.

[larry]

just scroll past, genius. they're too busy preparing the new jay retread single to hop up this board for you...

some people want the world on a silver platter...

[larry]

Yep, childish, rude and insufferable. Fuck off, thanks.

you're welcome MCI.

insufferable? are you wearing a flowing gown and fanning your face with a tiffany's catalog or what?

[tinobeat]

HCI, you can't get involved like this! You'll never win. Larry's the kind of poster who isn't 100% troll but has lately taken to throwing down completely useless negative shit sometimes to see who bites, and will ALWAYS care less than you in an argument, which means he wins. You've gotta stop biting!

Larry, I don't think you're being a troll, but you do come across like you're patting yourself on the back for really "sticking it to the regulars" or something. I don't get it. You've been around for a while, I don't see what this new negative Larry is all about. There's so many shitty boards with shitty arguments every day, the nice part about this board was that there isn't much or any of that, except the past few weeks when you've been posting negative shit. I'm not saying everyone here agrees on everything, but there isn't outright antagonism or negative showboating like you've been getting into. Disagreements don't equal "label shill" just as much as they don't equal "troll."

It sounds lame or whatever, but you wanna just be nice? you clearly like some good music and like talking about it, why not just stick to that? You're bringing the whole place down.

[Patrick]

larry, figure it out - he's a regular who doesn't get into fights with anyone, you're an occasional poster who's gotten into fights with a bunch of people.

you're pushing buttons, repeatedly, and that's gonna generate a negative response.

[TheSadDebaser]

how do bands get on booking agencies? do they get signed on the same as they would on a record label?

[Patrick]

Precisely right - though advances and long-term contracts don't play a role.

[9000]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/09/12/business/12employee01-500.jpg

it's going down.

[dola]

yep, the robots on the third floor are about ready to take over.

[baconfat]

Found this interesting tidbit on the Blank Dogs' myspace page:


Attn: "Blog" Websites (Stereogum, Brooklynvegan, etc.)

Never put up any music or videos or "photos" of any Blank Dogs material without permission.

Especially if you sell adspace on your site.

Anyone who wants to hear the music can do so for free at:

http://blankdogs.blogspot.com

[Fiona]

Desperately sad news today that Road, source of most of my purchases for the last 11 years, is closing down in a few weeks. *cry*
They're the second of Dublin's independent shops to announce they can't afford to continue to trade and we're only a couple of weeks into the year.

:( :( :( :( :(

[Fiona]

I'm very upset by this.

Please, please, please everybody - the next time you go to make a purchasing decision, I beg you to think about who you're handing your money to. I know that there can be a few quid in the difference between buying from a large online store, or a big box retailer and your independent record shop and more than ever we're all thinking about how we spend our cash. When you buy from an independent specialist shop run by people who give a shit, it's more than just buying the record - it's supporting a local scene, supporting wider creativity, fostering diversity of tastes, making friendships... these kind of shops are absolutely important to the society of music, and each time we lose one we all as music-lovers are the worse for it.

So PLEASE people, support independent music shops.

[pabost]

So PLEASE people, support independent music shops.

Honestly, I would if there were any near me. The westside of LA has no independent record stores that sell new product (there's a few used record stores), and very few corporate stores. It's a sad state of affairs that is leading me to do more and more mailorder; it's not easy getting down to Hollywood or Echo Park everytime I want to purchase a physical album.

[Fiona]

Honestly, I would if there were any near me. The westside of LA has no independent record stores that sell new product (there's a few used record stores), and very few corporate stores. It's a sad state of affairs that is leading me to do more and more mailorder; it's not easy getting down to Hollywood or Echo Park everytime I want to purchase a physical album.

Sure, I understand that going out the door to buy music isn't always as simple a task as walking a few blocks on a whim.
But if you're choosing the mailorder option, it shouldn't be any more difficult to buy from an independent. There's no shortage of shops out there with excellent websites and ordering facilities.
I'm sure folk here will be more than willing to share some of their favourites.

[johansen smith]

I like the people at Parasol and their prices aren't ridiculous

[tinobeat]

Honestly, the competition for me isn't big box vs. mom&pop, its mom&pop vs. indie mailorder. Much love forever to Twisted Village, but there's certain things they don't get in, and I depend on my lifeline of indie distros/mailorders for certain things that might be too "indie rock" or fast-moving for Twisted to get in. Fusetron, Florida's Dying, S-S, Other Music, Aquarius etc. have gotten about half of my business because there's certain things that fly off shelves so fast I can more dependably get them via mailorder.

But I still shop at Twisted Village and In Yr Ear (used stuff) and Newbury Comics at a rate that probably eclipses most casual shoppers, so I'm not beating myself up over it.

[pabost]

Sure, I understand that going out the door to buy music isn't always as simple a task as walking a few blocks on a whim.
But if you're choosing the mailorder option, it shouldn't be any more difficult to buy from an independent.

I agree, and I usually do barring an extraordinary deal on Amazon or elsewhere. I wish there were more stores, though. That's my ideal music-purchasing situation.

[Moon Pix]

A question Id like to ask regarding this area is are small labels much better off if you buy their releases directly through them from their online store or not? Id always just assumed that the label would get more money from each sale as you cut out the need for a distributor and so on.

Sometimes I wonder whether people around my age (currently 23) care about indie ethics and sticking it to the corporate ogre at all.:(

[johansen smith]

I only know how it works with Amazon. (Maybe bigger labels and distros get different/better deals than this, I don't know) Assuming you don't have a separate distro to handle this for you, you tell the site the price you want your item sold for. They split profits 55/45 (they take the bigger chunk) based on every item sold. Now, Amazon can lower the price they sell the item for and it only eats into their profit for that item-- a CD agreed to be sold at 14.99 being on sale for 10.99 still nets the distributor 45% of 14.99. Depending on how much volume you move, you may also have to pay to have warehouse space (If you move a lot, you don't get charged) and of course you have to pay to have an account capable of supplying Amazon with product. Now, if you're selling the title right from your warehouse for $12, with shipping and handling plus paying someone to pack it up, you are still making a little bit more than if you'd sold it via another site.

[Elijah]

I wonder whether people around my age (currently 23) care about indie ethics and sticking it to the corporate ogre at all.:(Few have ever cared about that at any age. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but I think the idea that a plurality of any generation has ever been anything more than sanctimonious in that regard is a myth.

[Moon Pix]

I like the people at Parasol and their prices aren't ridiculous

I like Parasol. I once emailed them asking if they would buy 2 rare Cat Power 7"s off eBay for me as I don't have an eBay account and don't really want to get into all that anyway. They were quite happy to. I said Id pay whatever the singles went for, the postage and plus a little something extra just for being pleasant and trusting about the whole deal. The postage to the UK was hardly anything and when I asked how much theyd like to say thanks I got this puzzled sounding email basically wondering why I considered it an effort on their part.

In the end I sent them something like $5 to say thanks. A lot of shops wouldnt do a deal like that.

[dola]

Few have ever cared about that at any age. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but I think the idea that a plurality of any generation has ever been anything more than sanctimonious in that regard is a myth.

Without going into anything substantive, saying that 'few' have ever had genuine feelings in this area is different than saying over half of the population has.

[Fiona]

Thought you might like to read Dave's thoughts about the current trading environment here for independent shops, and what's lead them to pack it in.

Lads and Lassies

First of all, thank you all for your kind words about our store and us personally, we really do appreciate it as Road has always been about a personal approach from day one.

I am very sad to say that we will in fact be closing down the store in the next 2 - 3 weeks as things have just become too difficult for us to proceed, we basically have no money left and as it is just a small shop run by Julie and myself we can longer afford to fund it. Believe me if we were at least breaking even each week then we would continue on in hope but as we are continually losing money, and have been for at least six months, we cannot carry on as any losses incurred will have to be personally paid for by us. We have put enough of our own money into the store in the last year just to keep it afloat but I am sad to say we really don’t have anything left at this stage, if we continue to trade we will just continue to lose money that we honestly do not have any more and thus we will end up paying off bank loans for the rest of our lives. I know a lot of people think if you have your own store that you have money behind you but believe me that is just a myth.

Its been an absolutely amazing eleven years for us and neither of us regret one single second of it, when we close I will not be looking back on wasted time in any way.

We have made some amazing friends through the shop and have had the pleasure of dealing with some truly fantastic bands [and their members].

Without blowing my own trumpet I do think Dublin will be a worse place without us as I think from day one we were always the most approachable store for Irish bands and their independent releases, it was one of the main reasons for setting up the store [some of you may remember the fact that I spent most of my youth plugging away in bands with nowhere to sell our music] and we have always tried to be as supportive to local music as possible, mainly because people in this country make music as good as if not better than anywhere else but have never had a proper outlet to sell it. We have always had a policy to make sure to play Irish music in the store so people in here can hear it and understand the quality and diversity of music being made in Ireland. If we heard something that excited us then we would always go out of our way to promote it as much as possible both in the store and on the site.

The reasons for the downturn are many and varied and if there was just one then we could try overcome that in some way but its no longer possible to pinpoint just one.

I will try list some of the reasons I see for the death of the small shop and I really do hope I am not right in thinking that many more will go the same way, I have always been optimistic that this city can sustain a couple of smaller indie shops but I no longer believe that to be true, again, I really hope I am wrong with this opinion but the way people go about buying their music these days does not instil me with too much confidence.

1. Regardless of what I have thought over the years downloading has affected our business, probably more so the illegal side of things, filesharhing and the likes. I speak as a shop on this one but god knows how much small bands suffer because of this aswell.

2. Below cost sellers online, everybody wants a bargain and its hard to take the moral highground on this one, but everytime a purchase is made to the likes of Play etc is a nail in the coffin to the indie store, these online sellers don’t care one hoot about indie bands and music, they just need to sell in bulk and as quickly as possible. They will never put any money or effort back into indigenous music, try asking them to sell 50 copies of a beautiful hand made cdr release.

3. The city centre just does not have the same volume of people walking around it anymore, its a simple fact, less people means less sales. We have noticed a massive downturn in the amount of people visiting the store in the last year.

4. Kids don’t buy music anymore. That sounds like a fairly broad statement to make, I know there are still some out there but we don’t see any young people in the shop anymore so as we lose older customers we don’t gain any new ones.

5. Obviously this country is going through a recession at the moment so it would be stupid of me to claim that this wasn’t having an effect on our business but having said that things were already beginning to change long before that.

6. The deal with selling independent local releases always had to be a two way exchange for us, we never made much money from local releases [and that was never the idea] but we always sought the support of bands. By that I mean if we were selling your music then we would always appreciate the bands making a purchase in the store in return, sadly that did not always happen, and before you jump at me for making this statement I do accept that plenty of you out there were very supportive of us but take if from me we did have quite a lot of bands coming in to us with their own release to sell whilst also carrying a hmv bag with a purchase they had just made, simply because it was cheaper there.

7. The cost of running a store in this city has increased dramatically in the past 4 / 5 years, rents have gone up so much, insurance increased, bank costs and so many other things that over the years it has become increasingly more difficult just to meet our costs on a week to week basis.

8. Whilst this one may not seem so obvious the cost of an average cd or record in the store is now less than it was 5 / 6 years ago and that is a good thing to the consumer but it has also seriously dented our chances of making a living in any way, it just means we have to sell more to cover our costs but as I mentioned with less customers coming through the door that has not been possible.

As you may gather from this piece we are both very very sad about the prospects of closing down our shop, this is our only way of making a living and now we are both back to square one with pretty much no money [and a brand new baby to support], I don’t know what either of us are going to do from now on but I’m sure we will survive.

I say this from my heart that I really hope the last few remaining indie stores will survive in the city and I hope you can take time out to visit them and make a purchase, otherwise these stores will not make it through these times either, and don’t leave it for a couple of weeks, do it today as they really do need your support and its only when they are all gone that you will then miss them.

Again, thank you all for your kind words and to anybody out there that has supported us in any way thank you also, we have had so much pleasure over the last eleven years doing what we do.

Dave and Julie

[dola]

Among music lovers these are some of the more personal contradictions that come up because of this system. A nice and hard working couple are now out on their ass because productive forces have left them and their young life's work behind. Reminds me of...


The feudal aristocracy was not the only class that was ruined by the bourgeoisie, not the only class whose conditions of existence pined and perished in the atmosphere of modern bourgeois society. The medieval burgesses and the small peasant proprietors were the precursors of the modern bourgeoisie. In those countries which are but little developed industrially and commercially these two classes still vegetate side by side with the rising bourgeoisie.

In countries where modern civilisation has become fully developed a new class of petty bourgeois has been formed, fluctuating between proletariat and bourgeoisie and ever renewing itself as a supplementary part of bourgeois society. The individual members of this class, however, are being constantly hurled down into the proletariat by the action of competition, and, as modern industry develops, they even see the moment approaching when they will completely disappear as an independent section of modern society, to be replaced, in manufactures, agriculture and commerce, by overlookers, bailiffs and shopmen.

...
In its positive aims, however, this form of Socialism aspires either to restoring the old means of production and of exchange, and with them the old property relations, and the old society, or to cramping the modern means of production and of exchange within the framework of the old property relations that have been, and were bound to be, exploded by those means. In either case it is both reactionary and utopian.

...
Ultimately, when stubborn historical facts had dispersed all intoxicating effects of self-deception, this form of Socialism ended in a miserable fit of the blues.

[Moon Pix]

Few have ever cared about that at any age. I’m not saying that’s good or bad, but I think the idea that a plurality of any generation has ever been anything more than sanctimonious in that regard is a myth.

I saw this really amazing documentary a while back called About A Son. It was audio taken from some of Michael Azerrad's interviews with Kurt Cobain playing over footage of various places that Kurt used to go to in Seattle and Olympia and so on. Quite experimental really.

Anyway I always remember a bit in it where Kurt was talking about the Sub Pop days and about the indie punk mentality that a lot of people had then. He said that just because he was in a punk influenced band people felt he should be like a crusader against certain things like the mainstream record business and so on. His attitude was basically how fucking dare they demand anything of a person and make assumptions of their politics just because they play a certain kind of music.

I know thats a different tangent but I think it kind of relates to it. The push/pull between the mainstream and the underground is what makes it interesting. Its just a shame that it always seems to be the little guy who loses out.

[bitterfruit]

Steve Albini on file sharing (http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/ten_years_after_napster_musicians_are_still_gettin .php#comment-140674).

[johansen smith]

I wonder if that writer is aware of just how many small indie acts leak their own album.

[dola]

I love Albini but as always it's just more complicated than he makes it seem.

I just wish that this magical new world didn't mean that smaller but relatively successful musicians had to tour pretty much non-stop throughout the year to make a living. Yes it's a HUGE privilege and playing live in front of people is definitely a major part of what it means to 'make music.' At some point though all of that time on the road takes a toll on those who love what they do but feel like with lower guarantees and no health insurance they can't afford to stay home for more than 3 months of the year. Not to mention that's a whole lot of fuel pumping.

Here are some thoughts (http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=7962394&blogId=474032228) from a friend of mine whose album leaked this year. It's another, I think more nuanced take from someone Albini purportedly speaks for.

[Paul]

I trust Whitey wouldn't have a reason to lie about this, but can anyone corroborate this woeful tale?

Yesterday I had a bizarre moment..... I had a TV beer ad that i didnt know about brought to my attention that used a song of mine.

This was because of an old EMI licence from 5 years ago- they had 5 years of rights to the track, so EMI signed it off and trousered the loot. Seems nobody thought to tell me. Nice, huh?

Anyway, this got me thinking about my experiences with adverts using my music.

Now for those of you who are outside this industry, this is basically how it works. An ad agency in.. lets say the U.S.A... hears about an artist. This artist has a buzz... they are up and coming- the agency likes this buzz, and thus likes your song for a certain ad. They mock it up and show the ad to the client. The client loves it. Everybodys happy. An offer is made, your publisher calls you- you got the ad! Hooray! Papers are signed. The ad guys go out to celebrate- they just made a lot of money. The clients Creative Dept celebrate- they have a great new ad, with a hip song on it- hooray! They go out to celebrate- maybe with the Ad guys- who knows. They also just made a lot of money.

The publishers are happy- a hefty fee has landed in their account- they've made a lot of money! Lets celebrate!

Far away from California or NYC, a musician calls his friends- I got the ad! Lets celebrate!

But wait - theres something wrong here- the artist has no money yet to celebrate... OK, well thats not so bad- surely, like every single other party involved, the artist can invoice for the money- and in 30 days- hooray! Celebrate!

WRONG. The musician, the lynchpin of this big deal, the deal that is the cause of so much celebration, may have to wait up to a year and a half to get paid.

Nobody else does- from the teaboy on the ad shoot to the cleaner in the ad agencys office, the lawyers, the ad men, every other individual connected with that moment of business will be paid in a sane, normal timeframe.

ONLY the musician is subject to this extended delay- why is this?

Its to do with accounting cycles, corporate disregard for the artist, and a simple bank interest scam.

You see, 30 days or so after its all signed off, the US branch of your publisher collects the dough. Then it holds the money in its bank account for 6 months until its next payment cycle comes around. Why is this? Because they say so. Thats it- because they say so. Because in the music industry, back in the mists of time some clever accountant had a stroke of genius- you can imagine him shaking with excitement as he presented it to the board...

"I had a simple idea boys, and its going to make us a lot of money- from now on, we dont pay every month, like every other business on earth- we will only pay twice a year. And this is why- because we keep every penny of every big earning employees wages for SIX months at a time- can you IMAGINE the interest we'll make?? And if anyone wants to know why we do this... then the reason is this- because we say so!! " (STANDING OVATION FROM THE BOARD)


Now in the pre-computer era, with Dickensian shelves of mammoth ledgers full of tiny cramped handwritten figures, and no way to transmit complex information swiftly, human minds had to understand the thousands, millions of transactions necessary for a big business to survive. SO back then it may have been reasonable to delay payment for a month, two months, maybe on occasion for 6 months- whilst your accounts department beavered away, trying to catch up with the never-ending landslide of information.

But we have computers. We've had them a long time. So thats not the reason. A transaction involving a million complex variables can be done in a thousandth of a second.

Theres no real reason for this bi-yearly payout. Its totally abitrary. Its just because they say so. Can you imagine if you tried that?

YOU: "I'll pay my rent in six months"
LANDLORD: "Why?"
YOU: "Because I say so".

(CUT TO SHOT OF FILTHY MAN IN CARDBOARD BOX)

Anyway, I digress- 6 months after they receive it, the artist gets paid, and THEN he can celebrate, right? Hooray!

WRONG- then your publishers US division pays its UK branch. Who instead of making a couple of micro-second calculations to deduct their cut and paying through- hold it on their account until the next payment cycle. The only possible reason? 6 more months of interest for the company! Hooray!

Now a year has passed.. its payday, surely? It MUST be payday now! Hoora...

WRONG- the UK branch of your publisher pays your publishing agent. Your agent also keeps it in his account for 6 months- the smaller fish have learnt from the big sharks over the last decades, and because the big sharks say its OK, the smaller fish has learnt a wonderful trick called the 'payment cycle'. He gets 6 months interest. Why? Because... zzzzzzz

So a year and a half later, the artist finally gets his money.

Now dont get me wrong- its fucking great to get money from an ad, they pay well and its better than most jobs I've had. But heres where the stupidity kicks in: the music business is struggling, so they greedily hold on to their interest to maximise profits. Meanwhile they struggle to find funding for smaller artists- who frequently, buzz or not, are given two singles and if those rocket into profit- possibly an album to prove themselves, and a cripplingly small budget to tour and present themselves. Tour support is crucial- lets say you are a little band with a buzz about them, offered a 30 date support tour for a big international band- that costs a lot of money- staff, roadies, petrol, tour buses, catering ,band wages, flights, hotels... record companys simply wont invest that level of money any more. So you CANT take this opportunity. You have to let it float away. Most artists, given the funds to invest, would seize that moment and self invest.

Now- that initial buzz moment- when a tune catches the zeitgeist and people react- is the moment when an artist NEEDS MONEY THE MOST- to tour, to MAXIMISE the potential of that moment, to pay for the costs of equipment, a studio to work in, the funds to build on that crucial fucking split second when opportunity is there. And at that moment, some lucky artists get a further break- they get an advert- so in one stroke of luck - their exposure goes sky high AND they have the funds to hurl themselves into touring.

Lets recap- everything is now in place- the buzz is there, the music is good, the exposure is sky high, the advert pays the artist enough to money to tour with anyone, to INVEST in that moment.

And what does the current set-up do? It takes that money away for a year and a half.

In a nutshell then: So many musicians work like dogs for years to get to the point where they start to break through, then stall from lack of funds. The few that self-generate the funds to continue past this point have those funds suspended until after the crucial moment passes.

Its a typical self-defeating piece of music industry stupidity, based on a cheap swindle, stemming from a mindset that prizes short-term profit over longer term strategy.

Both the fact the aforementioned beer advert was 'green lit' without my knowledge, and my main point- that its regarded as ethically acceptable for the musician to be paid last in order to maximize profit- are down to a deeply inbred fault in music industry culture- and are symptomatic of the patronising stance of the corporate music industry towards the artists they live off:


The artist is seen as a disposable commodity, easily replaced and transitory- and as such can be used up quickly and casually disposed of like any other cheap replaceable resource.




NJW
Berlin 2009

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=64739104&blogId=511528033

[Patrick]

It varies from deal to deal, but either quarterly or 6-month accounting periods are standard (usually with 45-day or 90-day reconcilations after the end of each period).

In no Matador deal would it be possible for the label to sign off without the band's approval. Major labels... well, you get what you sign up for.

What he doesn't mention is the advance. Labels and publishers invest in bands by paying money up front, and in return for taking this risk (since many, if not most, signings will not earn out), most contracts give them the right to collect and pay out royalties in contractual accounting periods.

It's not quite as simple or easy as this guy makes out. The ad runs - but usually the money is not paid right away. It has to be collected, and if it's in a foreign country, it's often collected by a licensee (even if an affiliated one), in a separate currency, with a legal arms-length relationship between the companies.

During the period that the ad money is collected, the label or publisher may well be paying out further advance money for recording, touring or whatever. The system of accounting periods and reconciliation periods is intended to regularize and control the collections and payouts so that it is fair to all parties. Otherwise it would be very possible to pay out more than was actually earned in a given period. Moreover the calculations are complex, even more so with a huge roster of artists or writers, all signed to contracts with varying terms. For most labels, it's rarely as easy as a simple flow-through. For small companies with varying cash flow and less leverage, it's never easy to get paid by distributors, stores or licensees.

I'm not saying that what the guy experienced was fair or perfect, but there is more to the story than he implies. EMI - well, he signed the deal and took the money.

[Paul]

Thanks for clarification. It seemed like a simplistic rant, based on his own situation that he seems to have walked blindly into.

[Patrick]

To put this into crass business terms:

A further problem is that labels are basically investors in a risky product - one where, say only 7 out of 10 investments pay off. Like all investors, they have to earn a return or they will go under. Given the high fail ratio and low predictability of success, cash flow management is essential. The hits pay for the misses, and the 6-month accounting periods help iron out the periods where there are more misses than hits.

The guy will get paid, but he has to wait because he accepted an advance and entered into an agreement.

[baconfat]

There's a real interesting blogfight going on in the comments section of this NPR Monitor Mix (Carrie Brownstein's blog) page (http://www.npr.org/blogs/monitormix/2009/11/roundtable_discussion_the_role_1.html) between Mr. Cosloy and Scott Soriano of S-S Records fame.

I have only a passing familiarity with Terminal Boredom, but it's just plain hilarious to me when I see someone, much less a label owner, accusing Matador of "destroying the underground." Also, the comparison of Matador with Interscope is also full of funsies.

I should also mention that the article is worth a read for anyone wondering how label owners see the state of the music biz in 2009.

[tinobeat]

Scott Soriano speaks! (to his email list)

...
One more thing, there is someone out there using my name on a NPR indie label forum. I assume the person will try that again. Please note that it is not me. Other than posts on the terminal boardom board and my blogs, be suspect of my name appearing elsewhere. I am not positive but I believe that this is the result of fallout from selling the Dan Melchior "Clouds" 2LP (and it the fake me is not Dan or Chris from Hook or Crook).

----SS

[dola]

My Hilarious Warner Bros. Royalty Statement (http://www.toomuchjoy.com/?p=1397)